Crime aboard ships.

[Roger Dyer]

Hi Shipmates,

Following the link provided by Doc Vernon I have read some of the horror stories and together with the comments of other members on this thread it has opened my eyes to the high level of crime committed on modern cruise ships. I was, of course, aware that some crime did occur, but never realised it was so prevalent.

I'm surprised that news media on both sides of the 'pond' haven't latched onto this story in a big way (maybe they have and I didn't notice). Perhaps a big media expose (exposay) would highlight the need for more efficient and effective on-board security. I'm probably being naive, but I would have thought that cruise ship operators and others involved in the industry would dread the loss of revenue such exposure might generate and take the necessary steps to improve the standards of security on their ships. One can only hope that someday soon this will occur. Unfortunately, as it stands, it seems to be another example of the 'ugly side' of big business - 'Let's just concentrate on making money and not be too distracted from our goal by matters of minor importance'. One would like to think otherwise, but apparently the personal safety and welfare of cruise ship passengers is of minor importance. Great after-sales service

As already pointed out by Jim.B and Captain Kong the question of jurisdiction does appear to be very wishy-washy. If, as seems to be the case, jurisdiction rests with the country where the ship is registered, it is hardly surprising if those countries (mostly F.O.C.) are reluctant to become involved, especially if the ship in question is operating from another country on the other side of the world. As Glan informs us, at least the U.S. takes an interest if one of their nationals are involved, but they appear to be an exception. Generally speaking it appears to be a very unsatisfactory state of affairs. Is it wishful thinking on my part to imagine that International Law (maritime or otherwise) would provide clear direction pertaining to investigative responsibility following a crime committed on a merchant ship?, perhaps it is.

Must go, it's time for my anti-suicide pill.

....................Roger.

[Captain Kong]

There is a horrific story of an attack and murder of a lady on P&O s cruise ship. I read an account of this a few years ago.Go onto GOOGLE AND TYPE DIANNE bRIMBLE MURDER in for the full story of where this lady is drugged and gang raped by up to eight men and then killed. There was a lot of cover ups over it.
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./Monday, 23 September 2002, at approximately 1700 in Sydney, Australia, Dianne Brimble boards the Pacific Sky cruise ship for a 10-day/9-night cruise to Nouméa, New Caledonia, and Vanuatu. She is accompanied by her sister, Alma Wood, her daughter, Tahlia Marshall, and her niece. The eight "persons of interest" also board the ship. A total of 1500 passengers are on board.
Tuesday, 24 September 2002 at about 0400, Brimble is seen leaving the ship's disco with four of the eight "men of interest." At approximately 0830, the ship's emergency paramedics are called to cabin D182 when attempts by two of the men to revive Brimble fail. At 0903 she is pronounced dead.
Thursday, 26 September 2002 Detectives board the ship while in port in Nouméa and begin questioning various witnesses. While Brimble's cabin was sealed for further investigation the cabin where she was found was not, the four occupants, Wilhelm, Slade, Kuchel and Silvestri are moved to another cabin and are allowed to remove their belongings. The cabin was then cleaned. Brimble's body is removed from the ship and transported back to Australia. Her family members also disembark.
Friday, 4 October 2002. Brimble's funeral is held in Brisbane. More than 250 people attend, including her former husband, Mark Brimble, and her partner, David Mitchell.
9 March 2006. The inquest into her death opens at Glebe Coroners Court in Sydney. Statements are given by friends and family of Brimble, and Pacific Sky passengers and crew.
16 June 2006 Letterio "Leo" Silvestri is the first of the "persons of interest" to take the stand at Glebe Coroners Court.
25 June 2006 Mark Brimble, Brimble's former husband, becomes the Australian representative for the US-based group International Cruise Victims Organization.
28 July 2006 Ryan Kuchel, the second "person of interest", testifies before the coroner.
11 September 2006 The inquest resumes. Betty Wood and Alma Wood, the mother and sister of Brimble, fly in from Brisbane to attend the inquest. Ryan Kuchel continues to give evidence, as do several members of P&O's security staff. During the week, Petar Pantic and Dragan Losic also testify. Upon finishing his testimony, Pantic formally apologises to the family of Brimble.
6 November 2006 The inquest resumes. Evidence is given by Dragan Losic, crew members and other witnesses. Brimble's family accuse police of covering up evidence.
16 February 2007 The counsel assisting the inquest, Ron Hoenig, suggests to the coroner that Leo Silvestri and Mark Wilhelm could be charged with murder over Brimble's death.
22 February 2007 P&O's chief executive, Peter Ratcliffe, apologises to the Brimble family for the company's failure to handle the situation properly following the death of Brimble. P&O offers a substantial payment to the family.
9 July 2007 The inquest resumes.
10 July 2007 Testimony is given by Luigi Vitale. He says he had never met Brimble, and does not believe her death was suspicious. He says he has no memory of the events leading up to her death.
13 July 2007 Testimony is given by Matthew Slade. He sets himself apart from the other seven persons of interest, referring to them as "wankers" and "idiots." He says he had received death threats regarding the case, as had another of the persons of interest, Mark Wilhelm.
26 July 2007 The coroner ends the inquest, saying there is enough evidence capable of satisfying a jury that "known persons" had committed indictable offences. Counsel assisting the inquest, Ron Hoenig, said there was enough evidence to conclude two unnamed people had committed an indictable offence. Hoenig said possible charges could relate to supplying a person with a drug and not rendering a person assistance.The case is referred to the Director of Public Prosecutions. In previous days, the inquest heard secretly recorded telephone conversations in which several of the men of interest joke and make derogatory statements about Brimble, including claims that she "was no angel". Some discussed the possibility of selling their stories to the police and the media for millions of dollars. The last of the men of interest to take the stand, Mark Wilhelm, elects to exercise the right to remain silent during the inquest.
6 December 2007 Person of Interest in Dianne Brimble's murder, Petar Pantic, fled Australia with a one way ticket for Serbia. He was discovered to have fled when police tried to serve an arrest warrant on him, in relation to the importation of prohibited Zoophilia pornography. He returned to Australia in 2009 and was fined $5,000 for the offence.[14]
11 September 2008 The NSW Director of Public Prosecutions recommended that Mark Wilhelm be charged with manslaughter and supplying fantasy, and that Letterio "Leo" Silvestri and Ryan Kuchel be charged with perverting the course of justice.[22]
19 February 2009 A trial date has been set for the trial of three of the persons of interest. [1]
21 April 2010 Manslaughter charge dropped against Mark Wilhelm. [2][3]

[Captain Kong]

google this and you will not want to cruise again.
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Cruise Ship Deaths
Deaths During Cruise Ship Voyages

Passenger And Crew Cruise Ship Deaths

[Captain Kong]

The old Union Castle Line had a few crimes on their ships..

There was the gold bullion theft of £100,000 of gold ingots from the strong room in 1965 on the Cape Town Castle, two Seamen convicted.
and also the murder of Gay Gibson by Steward James Camb in 1947.
Before the WW2 there was a murder on the old Queen Mary.
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There have been a few murders on Carnival ships.
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When I was on the good ship GEORGIC in 1955 we had some attempted murders, men put ashore in Cape Town and gaoled for ten years for attempted murder and one gaoled for eleven years in Sydney for attempted Murder by cutting the throat of another crew member.
and so it was forever thus.
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Happy cruiising.
Brian

[Jim Brady]

Hi Glan,I think you have it right,the FBI could investigate ships calling into the U.S.where a U.S, Citizen is involved no matter the Country of registration.I think the new legistlation now means that the FBI can board ships anywhere in the world if a crime has been carried out against a U.S.citizen.
Regards.
Jim>B.

[happy daze john in oz]

The D. Trimble story was a very interesting one at the time. It was widely reported that she was travelling on her own. The case went for a lengthy period as the captains report shows. But all was not lost. as a result of this P&O had to tighten up very heavily on security on board. Prior to that incident P&O here in Oz were considered to be the 'happy go lucky' cruise line. They ran their ships to a price here not a standard at that time, so all the rat bags would go for a boozey cruise. They still operate to a price but have somewhat improved their standards. Only done one cruise with them, one too many in my opinion.

[septiclecky]

Back in the 80's when I worked for P & O cruises sailing out of OZ we carried 4 NSW police to keep an eye on the passengers. Remember a couple of incidents onboard.

The first was a passenger who was in the Abercrombie suite who it turned out had bought his cruises and other things on board with stolen/counterfiit credit cards.

The second was when a crew search was carried out and a quantity of drugs was found onboard, the NSW police did no more than go up to the foc'stle and throw it over the side, the Cheif Officer went ballistic saying he wanted to know who it was and where it was founf the police replied they where not giving that info and that was the end off it. The Choff said he would report them when they got back etc, they replied go ahead and do that but the reason we have done what we have is that if it had been reported about the drugs customs would be crawling all ove rthe ship when it goy back and it would not be sailing on the next cruise. This made the Choff see sense and did bugger all.

[Red Lead Ted]

I think has hit the nail on the head as regard to these terrible events that do undoubtedly go on at sea amongst cruise ships. For me its an unregulated number of cheap seaman who are allowed to sign on these ships of today that breeds the problem i read today there are hundreds of crew going missing most of whom are young woman. Yes would not and didn't happen in our day for the simple reason there was respect amongst men/woman/ stewards/ shop workers/ale seaman/ laundry staff /whatever there status. Glan bye his own admission has been retired for a few years and i think in that few years Glan there have been many changes for the worse shipping companies around the world today look for the cheaper option rather than the regulated one which would have only been brought about bye seamans B.O.T. Regulations And the N.U.S. We know lads we lived through it and wore the tee shirt Not a happy chap Regards all Terry.