Crew Interface

[Capt Bill Davies]

Most of us will have sailed with mixed crew. Did you mix with them? Did you mix with the Mates/Engineers?

Having sailed as a rating in the China only, we never socialized with the Chinese Engine rating
or the Stewards when they were Chinese for the obvious reasons. Socializing with the officers was 'frowned on'.

Having left British Flag in 67 I understand things changed rapidly from say 70 onward .

Interesting to hear.

Bill

[j.sabourn]

Bill, Suppose we all have different views on this subject, depending on what type of ship/company you were on/in/.
Myself I have had a very varied time at sea. I tried the oil industry iin 77, really to try and get some time at home. I know Masters at that time deep sea who was their stated intention if the changes being suggested were brought in they would resign. Such changes as common messroom facilities which some of the real old timers thought were terrible. These people had always been used to the old system, I have even been on one ship years ago where the master had his own saloon and ate alone. This was a German Built ship. So to some old habits were hard to break. How many packed in because of this I dont know, but would have played into the shipowners hands if they did as their jobs soon went with lack of shipping. From 77 onwards I was always or nearly always with communal messing and saw nothing really wrong with this. I think the old era before our time there was a certain amount of class barriers and social snobbery, whether this is still there to the few British ships remaining I wouldnt know. On my infrequent trips back deep sea the set up was varied from ship to ship, there was never really any good communication due to the language barriers. Cheers John Sabourn.

[happy daze john in oz]

On liners the only timew we got to mix with other crew as we were catering, was in the pig. Most nights there would be deck and other crew and from memeory we all got on fairly well. Cargo and tankers I think we just mixed at meal times or on deck.

[Mike Hall]

this is interesting,
when i worked in the pantry on the cargo ships,i was around the mates and engineers quite a lot,and i would speak as often as i could,how else am i going to get on with them.
once i reverted to the galley,it was the other way round,like an engineer would say if i bung you a tip could you supply me with some fresh fruit now and again or extra biscuits etc.
this worked well,some times ashore i would not have to buy any drinks.
those were the days
mike

[John Albert Evans]

Having read the comments of others here I feel I must be the exception to the rule because on all the ships I sailed in during my time at sea I never sailed with any member of crew that was not white. 1957 to 1964.

John.

[j.sabourn]

On ships like Survey and other specialized vessels to further explain the arrangements, these were quite large areas and were mostly self service with the cooks behind the food areas keeping them topped up.There might be a dozen tables set out. People sat where they wanted and were no barriers to where you sat. As on these type of vessels the work was ongoing 24 hours a day the canteen area was usually allways open apart for a couple of hours a day for the place to be cleaned. This was similar to the Rigs. There is some on this site who worked on the rigs so they would have an input to this. On these type of vessels you had a night cook and a day cook as well as a Stores manager ( purser, ch. Stwd. or whatever title one wants to give to nowadays) There could be up to 200 men at any one time on some of these Installations. Food was always available. Cheers John Sabourn

[Tony Morcom]

On the ships I was on in the 70s there were regular crew/officer evenings such as horse racing, movies etc. Sometimes it would be in the crew bar and sometimes in the officer's bar. All very invited and usually attended providing they weren't sleeping or on watch. In most cases the Captain and Chief Engineers were equally happy to be involved. Only very occasionally did anyone cause any trouble and then only after a skinful.

[Red Lead Ted]

You obviously worked your way through the rank,s i always found i was on a par with any officer that done the same and remember one skipper in particular who came ashore with all the crew after docking back in the UK awaiting to pay off the next day he was dressed in his khakis shirt and shorts black socks and polished shoes after a few drinks in the local bar in i think it was Ipswich one of the bar maids asked why he was dressed like that and not the rest of us i replied he is an ex Jap sniper from the last war he cant get out of the habit.He laughed harder than any of us a true gent and had every crew member,s respect and goodwill always. But for some reason midshipmen who then became officer,s. Where not on my wave length its hard to put into words i think they thought they where the Elite !!!!!! In fact as i once said to a 2nd m8 you are the Elite you'll eat anything Regards skipper Terry.

[Captain Kong]

The only mixed crew I ever sailed with was on a Blue Funnel ship. Euryades. Sailors from Merseyside and the Cooks, Stewards and firemen from North and South China. who hated each other. We never mixed, language and culture, expecially after Chinese New Year when the Captain allowed them to use the Officers mess to celebrate.
The North Chinese hated the South Chines and when they all got bevied they started battling and one got a fire axe, try to kill the others. We had to go in seperate them. He was locked up down aft and put ashore in Penang.
.
.I never sailed on an intergrated ship. I was in trouble twice when I was the Mate on one ship and I always ate my evening dinner in the Sailors mess, I was invited, They were a good crowd and good humour and we always had a laugh., in the end the Captain stopped me and said it was bad for moral, The ABs were happy with me there, so why did these people object, far better than in the Officers mess where all I could hear was Engineers talking about stripping down engines etc.
I always went ashore with them for a bevy, rank was never involved, we just enjoyed our selves, Those ABs would do anything for me without question, they knew I had done it so no problem.
I was Master of a small tanker, and sailed with Cook Islanders out of Singapore until the new owners introduced Chinese who I had to train to eventually take over. The Cookies were very good, funny and always laughed, the Chinese were very dismal, did everything by the book and never socialised.
I still call to see some of the Cook Islanders when I go to the Pacific Islands and am always welcome, in fact one of their widows lives near to me and she comes to dinner at my home quite regular. She is really nice.
I did sail with a few foreign Seafarers, Poles on a MacAndrew boat, not too happy with them, very miserable and non social outside of themselves. Shared Cabins with Spaniards, Maltese and the odd dark skinned fellows , West Indian and a Dutchman, but we all got on with each other so no problems there.
Cheers
Brian.

[j.sabourn]

Brian, parts of your posts sound very familiiar. My first trips to sea the apprentices were never allowed in the saloon whilst the officers were eating. This I was told later was that none ot their talk should reach the crews ears. What an excuse, I would have thought the saloon steward would have been able to do that in any case. We ate on No.3 hatch just outside the pantry. There was to my way of thinking a distinct snobbish air in those days, even between the deck and engine room. I was quite often in trouble for mixing with people which according to them I shouldnt. I made it my vow if ever I got to be master there would always be openness and none of this, I know what you dont know attitude, even the ships orders, next port of call etc. was sometimes kept secret to the last minute. I was recently counting ships I had been master on and came to 33. There is not one that I have kept secrets from the crew. Even to posting on the ships Notice Board a letter about observing the crews drinking habits, which I am sure hastened my departure from said Company. Nowadys the smallness of crews, every man is important and the old method would be very inadvisable in any case. As I used to do 6 weeks swings on certain vessels I always if had the chance got a crew list from the office and if knew there was any personal problems between anybody, had them transferred to another ship, if they wanted to know why? I told them. Personal reports on officers I always showed them Good Bad or indifferent. The openness did not exist in years gone by. Cheers John Sabourn