Libya

[Capt Bill Davies]

John and Ted,

I have come to the conclusion that the west do a simple Formal Safety Assessment (5 steps) on troublesome states and exercise step four (Cost Benefit Analysis.....is it worth it). If oil is not in a CBA they leave it alone.

Mugabe and the horn have nothing to benefit intervention.

Brgds

Bill

[Les Woodard]

You hit the nail on the head John. At least it reduces the world population with so many dying. Why should they waste money on this while they kill of thousands in other countries. That is the blunt truth and there will always be spin put on what is happening. Has anyone else noticed that in these countries the rebels do not seem to be starving or short of arms to waste bullets shooting holes in the sky. Some one somewhere is making a serious amont of bread out of this. Until we become aware of all the BS that is spouted it will keep on happening. So yes it suits a lot of certain leaders to sit back and watch it all happen. Can we not see how this fosters anger amongst them and how parasitic leaders take advantage of the situation.

[happy daze john in oz]

Les some years ago when I was employed in the university system I had a conversation with the head of deprtment of humanities. What he told me was anything but humanitarian.

The west could easily feed all these starving people if they wished. However if they do they will become phyicaly strong, from there politicaly strong and thus pose a threat to the west. So give them as little as possible and at the same time tell the world you will do something. That something can be nothing if the west so chooses.

[Red Lead Ted]

Stayed up a little late to take in Obama's address to the USA congress tonight and listened with interest at what he did and didn't fudge Both in the USA and the UK. There is a common denominator lack of jobs, investment, and growth.The uk coalition are intent on keeping the 50 percent tax rate for the richest in our society. The USA or should i say Obama want the same as it only seems fair for the richest to pay more in tax. It was a very clever but dodgy speech from the worlds greatest and richest super power.Here in the UK as soon as the Tory-lib Dem coalition come to power the very first thing they done was raise all tax not just income tax by 2 and a half percent as in VAT Going up. That cuts right across the board for everything from your Sunday lunch to you shoe laces.The uk today forecast growth which was predicted nearly 2 yrs ago when the coalition came to be up by at least 2+ percent it is in fact 0-3 percent. The two countries are going to if not already slip back into recession. It will be inevitable that interest rates will have to be raised. More misery on the uk public.But what pisses me off more than anything is that both countries fate is in there own hands both need to stop more immigration, cut taxes for the smaller companies from which little acorns grow, make the banks more accountable for lack of lending, stop the same banks from paying huge bonuses to themselves while under performing, get the troops out of the conflicts all over the world, And more to the point get the capitalist Ba****s who are sitting on there wedge who wont invest in dodgy business, who have soaked up the world gold markets for there own gain, Abolish off shore accounts and make them pay as you go capital gains tax like the rest of us.And for heaven sake whatever sacrifice or cost feed the children of the world.Regards Terry. ps i fully agree with your point on the rebels Les but then who gives a f*** Terry.

[happy daze john in oz]

Terry mate, much of what you say I can agree with. I think you will find that the UK has grown during the last quarter by about 0.5%. The problem lies with a few, the few who really control how thw owrld will work. They are the ones who operate the hedge funds,manipulate the markets for their own gains. Gold prices will eventualy fall, just as they did in the 80's after climbing to rediculous highs, and ony then will we see any form of investment in the countries you mention. Nothing will happen in US while Obama is there, the Republicans want him out and will do all they can to achieve this outcome. No matter what he puts forward they will not agree to so come the election next year unemployment will still be in the region of 9%
Regan is the only president in the history of Us to be re-elected with numbers like that.
The main suppliers of credit to the world, China and Russia, will not loosen the purse strings until they see governmenst they want in power.

[Les Woodard]

Is it no surprise that Russia and mainly China have the purse strings in their control. In China they look at the long time future and act accordingly. Heard that they are interested in taking over a few European banks before long besides the ones they have interests in now. Not like our lot who only look at getting good media coverage so as to be in a good position at election time. Republicans USA, Liberals OZ and Labour UK all seem to now have the answers to our problems pity they did not do something about it while they where in power. Agree with you Terry we should all pull out the troops and concentrate on looking after those in need then maybe there would not be the refugee problems that we are getting now. As for the markets well I think they are finally stopping short selling on the markets to try and turn them round. I know they banned it here a while back while the GFC was in full swing but think it is back in style again now. So no matter what happens be it war or finanacial it is all about the mighty dollar/ quid. A brief outlook from my point of view. Can you imagine how the USA and Oz would be now if we had the politicans of today then. At least in them days they did do things to advance the country and where did they source these wise men? From normal working blokes as well as proffessionals and now we get University educated self centred idiots leading us into the excrement. Who is to blame? Look in the mirror to find the answer. As they say we end up with the government that wanted and the choices are getting thinner on the ground.

[Red Lead Ted]

Apart from looking in the mirror Les? lmao i have never voted for a government that has held power in the uk for the last 35yrs. However The difference today from our day of full employment as far as the uk is concerned is the trades and all the other expertise were needed back in the 50s@60s We were still rebuilding G.B. After the last world war we traded with the world hence our huge Merchant Navy. Textile industries,New road infrastructure,In Liverpool alone the dock road was awash with ships chandlers, Tate@Lyle sugar and hundreds of spin off companies. Tobacco warehouses, Haulage companies abundant,I could go on and on. These were the reason youth walked straight into work from school you could walk off one job on Friday and walk into another on the Monday as you both no.The USA Have a chance if the Republicans agree to Obama's theory of spending there way out of trouble it is a massive country that has been hit over the past few years by natural tragedies and needs mending it does hold some water with me.But in the case of the UK, We dont have the need for the skills we are an island weighed down with as Les rightly says cheap labour {immigrants} Our Chancellor George Osbourn has for the moment the backing of the IMF Leader Christine Lagarde to carry on with this governments policies of further austerity and reduce borrowing to get growth on the up and debt down. But also said if by the end of this year we cant better 0-3 or 5 percent growth which i honestly cant see it improving with unemployment rocketing and consumer confidence zilge investment from as you say China and Russia under this governments policies are not going to happen. I am afraid we have a coalition government in the UK That are on the road to no were. Only George Osbourn and his fellow politicians no what plan B is when plan A fails you mention that dreaded word {WAR} Not beyond plausibility. Its good to talk lads and say it as it is, and not as you hope it is. Regards all Terry.

[happy daze john in oz]

I can see your point about the troops Les, but the fact is the first role of any government is defense of the nation and protection of it's borders. On the latter this lot have failed big time, but as to the defense of the nation, that does not always have to happen on the door step. If, and I do say if, fighting overseas protects our borders then that is the way it should be done.
Interestingly Tedd in the paper today your foreign minister says he would be Happy if EU made it easier for UK to go along with less EU control. Maybe it is now time for the UK to stand up to the idiots in Brussels, you know the ones that say all bananas must be straight, and say enough is enough, we want to control our country, not you! Europe is a good example of how not to run a business, unless of course you want to take in all the poorly run locals with you. It may well take over 100 years before Europe is a viable entity in it's own right, in the mean time you and yours will continue to suffer at the hands of the gravy train louts.
Remember a nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.

[Les Woodard]

Now this is going to come as a shock to you all but it looks like we have a government that is going to do some good at restoring our Merchant Navy in Oz unless the Liberals get in power and distroy it all again. Anyway have copied this out of todays paper as written in the Newcastle Morning Herald NSW on 10/09/2011 so here is some good news I hope.

Australian companies that register a vessel in Australia will be exempted from company tax from July 2012.

Federal Transport Minister Anthony Albanese has described the reforms as “the most far-reaching overhaul of our shipping industry ever undertaken”.

Mr Albanese said that vessels would have to be Australian flagged and remain registered in Australia for 10 years.

“What many people do not know is that 99 per cent of Australia’s international trade is carried by ships, yet only half of 1 per cent of that is carried by Australian-flagged vessels,” he told a forum at Sydney’s Australian National Maritime Museum yesterday.

“Our ports manage 10 per cent of the world’s entire sea trade.”

Mr Albanese said the reforms would have safety and environmental benefits.

The reforms include an Australian international shipping register and a new licensing regime applying to Australian resident companies.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Now this is going to come as a shock to you all but it looks like we have a government that is going to do some good at restoring our Merchant Navy in Oz unless the Liberals get in power and distroy it all again. Anyway have copied this out of todays paper as written in the Newcastle Morning Herald NSW on 10/09/2011 so here is some good news I hope.

Australian companies that register a vessel in Australia will be exempted from company tax from July 2012.

Federal Transport Minister Anthony Albanese has described the reforms as “the most far-reaching overhaul of our shipping industry ever undertaken”.

Mr Albanese said that vessels would have to be Australian flagged and remain registered in Australia for 10 years.

“What many people do not know is that 99 per cent of Australia’s international trade is carried by ships, yet only half of 1 per cent of that is carried by Australian-flagged vessels,” he told a forum at Sydney’s Australian National Maritime Museum yesterday.

“Our ports manage 10 per cent of the world’s entire sea trade.”

Mr Albanese said the reforms would have safety and environmental benefits.

The reforms include an Australian international shipping register and a new licensing regime applying to Australian resident companies.

Hello Les

I hope it works out as planned, but am I being cynical when I picture the WWF rubbing their hands in the hope of resurrection where-in they will get back control of the shipping and waterfront, hope I'm wrong, so good luck I hope it all works out okay.

Ivan