End of the red ensign???

[malcolm doherty]

If Bob Crow was the instigator he wants stringing up. It's him and his kind who would like to see the end of all things British.

Pete

Wonder if bob crow is a member of this site, then he could sit down and read what members
think about getting rid of the RED DUSTER , seen the times when you tied up in a british port the union man was first up the gangway to have a chat with the lads, now you never see them.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Wonder if bob crow is a member of this site, then he could sit down and read what members
think about getting rid of the RED DUSTER , seen the times when you tied up in a british port the union man was first up the gangway to have a chat with the lads, now you never see them.

Hi Malcolm

But the union man was only up for your subs. Bob Crow is running out of ships to represent, so he his raising red herrings with Brussels, so that he can justify his existence, the longer he stays in power the bigger his nest-egg, he does not have the members interests at heart, nor apparently the Country's.

Do you know of any destitute ex union leaders, plenty of destitute sub contributors though. Arthur Scargill for one wants to keep his "Grace and favour" home as well as his Grace and favour car, in addition to what he owns. Why is it that when union leaders get their members to go on strike, the union leader still draws his salary whilst shouting "I'm with you lads all the way"

Ivan

[happy daze john in oz]

John in OZ,the three Cunard"Queens"are registered in Southampton(England)as was the QE2.

Interesting as I believe Cunard is U.S. owned now. If push comes to shove maybe the owners will re-register them as with Princess line. But all is not lost as some companies such as Royal Caribbean still fly the Duster with the local emblem on it.

[Graham Evans]

This crook bob crow is also the main trustee of Springbok, the management & staff (for who's benefit this place is run) have no seafaring affiliations. Anyone who upsets them is thrown out. I spent 3 months there,during which time there was one hushed up suiicide, I was chucked out because of my right wing politics. Crow once asked me in the bar if I was "that nazi skipper"? this becacause I referred to Philipinos as "Flips". The whole place has been reduced to a holiday camp for bus drivers, seamen are not welcome....correspondents beware!!!

[Captain Kong]

Some of the lads from the Vindicatrix Association have a reunion at the Springbok around every March,
A lad called Norman Brice from Guildford organises it He has always complained about being difficult to get in there because of railway Porters and their ilk taking over the place. I heard that John Prescott Junior, who is a` property developer`, to me another name for` gangsta`, is trying to get all the farm land and build thousands of cheapo houses on it, making a few million quid.

Springbok belongs to the Merchant Seamen, a gift from the government of South Africa for their sacrifices in WW2.They must be stopped from stealing our heritage.

Crow is a good name, a SCAVANGER ,
FROM WIKIPEDIA,...........In the UK, the CROW is considered a pest when in a large community and under certain conditions can be shot under a number of general licences issued by DEFRA.
.

[Bill Seddon]

I agree with you Ivan,If only they put the members first,and not themselfs.I can go back to the Seamens strike in the 1960s.The shipowners were only interested in making profits,the union knew about us lads working 56 hours a week and did nothing about it.I went to many meetings at NUS in Liverpool and the National executive and President were all in favor of keeping the status quo.However ships crews had enough and were only asking for same working week as shore side.A walk out was on the cards.The UNION did not make the strikes official.Hence a breakaway group called the National seamens reform movement was started.Meetings were sometimes held in the Mersey Cafe and on or near Pier Head.A guy called Paddy Neary was voted as Chairman,also a commitee was formed.The union (nus) was furious,many times they were asked to make the strikes official,this was to no avail.However I know we had the support of the Longshoremen in New York,also our own Dockers in U.K.(not railway ports) they didnt want to know.I went to meeting in Montreal Seamens International Union and support us they did.A donation was sent over.Can I say to any one who happens to read this Seamen are not by virtue a millitant bunch of guys.All we were trying to do was get the shipowners to update conditions at sea.In the end we were given a lot of bad press.The Shipowners blamed us for loss of trade.This was the reason they used to put us out of work.Flags of convenience ie.Monrovia.Panama.Then the flood gates opened with cheap unskilled crews.However the main reason passenger liners were sold was cheap flights across the pond,nothing to do with seamen going on strike!Later on things did improve but the shipowners did not help us and in the end many were taken over or sold.This was the demise of the British M.N.and the Red Duster.Now as Capt Kong so rightly says if Brussels gets its way it will be gone forever.By the way I had some great times at sea,met some great guys who Im still seeing when I go down to the Vindy reunion at Sharpness.God bless you all.Bill Seddon aka Billy Wizz.

[happy daze john in oz]

One small point which Brussels may have overlooked. Yes they can say that ships cannot fly the Red Duster anymore unless they pay different rates of pay. Yes the shipping companies will then use more flags of convinience, but the flag will still remain. They may be able to 'ban' the use of it but to say it can no longer exist is not true, I do not believe they have the power to destroy the flag completely.If they get away with this then what next, ban the Union Flag?
But this as I understand it is an issue about rates of pay? If that is the case how can Brussels dictate what thoes rates should be, do they for instance set the rates for supermarket staff, or university lecturers? Or is this more a case of one individual attempting to find his place in history not caring what damage he does along the way?

[Captain Kong]

Hi Bill,
What you said was true,
I was there when Paddy Neary was arrested, we were on the bomb site next to the Sailors Home.
Cunard had placed a High Court Injunction on Paddy banning him from Speaking.
As soon as he got up and spoke The Police were running around the big Notice Boards and dragged him into a van. He was sentenced to Six Months in gaol in Brixton Prison. Because he refused to work in Gaol they put him on Bread and Water for two days and solitary.
All that for making a speech.
The Union Man Yates said, what all Union Men are trained to say, "Me hands are tied lads."
While Paddy was in Gaol, he had a wife and four children, NO Benefits for strikers in those days. they had nothing, and no rent, facing eviction, The Communist Party, led by Barney Flynn kept his family fed and rent paid.
Paddy died at the end of 2005.
Cheers
Brian.

[Keith at Tregenna]

The word is:

The equal pay directive, if it comes into force, simply means many ship owners will re-flag to save money as they will be fined for non-compliance. The loss will be in the number of ships under the Red Ensign and not the loss of the Red Ensign which has not been muted, to my knowledge, in this case.

The RMT Union have been a driver for this equality. One comment I have heard is that in one country a Merchant Seafarer could be earning more than a doctor in that country

Our Association believes that there should be no change and members have contacted their MPs. In some ways, it is similar to the prisoners’ voting rights.

?

K.

[Ron Kendall]

I don't want to ruffle any feathers, but my own personal opinion, is that if British registered ships are running between 2 ports in the UK, say Heysham to Belfast, then the crews should be on British wages, even if they are not from our parts. P and O were paying Filipino crews £1.63 an hour, and saying that it was more than they would get at home, that may very well be correct, but they have to pay UK prices for anything they need, and support families in the Phillipines, how can they do that on a pittance? British shipping companies have always been a bit miserable regarding wages, food and conditions, they got rid of several thousand loyal crew members years ago, so they could employ cheap labour, and they have been using flags of convenience for years. I dont think the big companies care what flag they fly, as long as they are making as much profit as possible for their shareholders. regards to all, Ron