Grenfell Tower inquiry

[robpage]

I spent some time yesterday listening to the testimony of Michael Dowden , the Watch manager at North Kensington who was in charge of the grenfell Tower fire for the first hour. Now I realise that the enquiry is there to get to the truth and he was the man on the spot but they asked him if he was the most experienced officer and the right and proper officer to be in charge that night I looked at it that he was the one they sent there for it was his responsibility so why do the legal boys question it he was sent and from what I can see he did his job they then asked him if he really was giving out the right advice for the people to stay put I felt that the people in charge of the enquiry we're trying to blame someone they're questioning seem quite aggressive almost like they weren't trying to get to the truth there were trying to hang it on somebody . You ain't got to one of the firefighters who broke all the rules and went to look for a 12 year old girl who was locked in an apartment on the 20th floor didn't find her got himself out of the building gave himself up and went back in . I know that the world at large needs to learn what the mistakes were and needs to make sure they don't happen again it's just with all these enquiries I sometimes think there is a huge blame Game going on and just listening to the testimony of some of these guys I don't think I'd like that job for all the fire hoses in a world what great people they were and how much effort they put in in doing what they did with the tools that they had and the job that they were given

[cappy]

##ask jws and captain kong about enquiries .....it apears to be not to look for answers but to put blame on the folks who were trying to help the overall situation and find there faults .....now its blame the fire brigades for a situation that had never been seen before.......give them a breathing apparatus send them up thousands of stairs till they drop......then blame them for getting it wrong......there are many tragedies not seen before that will happen and sadly some poor bugger will be in the firing line......we are all human beings not bloody robots.....thats my view......cappy

[Keith Tindell]

Rob, One of the fireman brought up a point that i myself have written about on this site. He stated that since 2005 a lot of the public buildings that he had attended fires in were a hazard. Prior to 2005 all hotels and public buildings were inspected by the Fire Service annually . On this visit we would check that fire drills and alarm systems had been checked at regular intervals, and crucially we had a plan of the building that the original Fire certificate had been issued, and we would check that no internal alterations had taken place to affect the fire escape route, such as the fire route passages and smoke log doors, all signs were operational, and smoke detectors etc etc. In 2005 it was deemed that the landlord was responsible for these measures. So in my mind there is a time bomb ticking away throughout the hotels and public buildings in this country. That is why when i book in to a hotel, put the bags down, and immediately check the quickest way out of the building. One question for everyone, how many hotels have you stayed in, and found the fire extinguisher propping the fire check doors open ??, kt

[Keith Tindell]

Further to my above, i await the findings with deep interest, and will be checking to see how many of the points i have made will have been contravened . i would take a bet the some of the smoke and fire retardant flat doors have had their self closing mechanism taken away because of the noise they make when self closing, kt

[robpage]

We had an annual fire Inspection at the Dairy by Cosham Fire Station , often by two or three different watches , the 1500 kg of compressed ammonia on site gave the station officer a few concerns , we got some one from Eastleigh in to give the staff training too , office and factory , never a problem . We got fire Certification then from the City Council , nightmare , the safe distance to a fire exit never a problem to HF&R, city council , tape measure out , was 18.3 metres 0.3 metres over in a fridge with 200 tonnes of cold milk and no flammables , he wanted a second exit built . common sense missing

- - - Updated - - -

Further to my above, i await the findings with deep interest, and will be checking to see how many of the points i have made will have been contravened . i would take a bet the some of the smoke and fire retardant flat doors have had their self closing mechanism taken away because of the noise they make when self closing, kt

listening to it on the radio I felt the lawyers were hanging a lot on the first hour and the watch officer

[Keith Tindell]

You may have had several watches visit Rob, not necessarily for the fire certificate, but what was called a 11D inspection, so that in the event of a fire the guys would have some idea of any particular hazards therein, such as your compressed ammonia, and they would be looking for water availability, entry points etc. i presume those will still be ongoing. The watch officer was of a fairly low rank, and dealing with a flat fire would be second nature to him, i think it was only after a while that they realised it was in the cladding, one guy was leaning out of the window with the hose, and he stated he could not get any result, the water just bounced off, again, i suspect it was behind the cladding itself and could only have been got at by pulling the cladding off. But the speed of spread was just too great, kt

[John Arton]

In my view any questions regarding the tactics and actiions of the fire fighters is a disgrace. There were 71 known deaths out of the thousands known to be living there plus the many unknown who were either visitors or were there illegally.
Irrespective of the rights or wrongs of the fitting of the cladding, windows, doors etc. There is only one person responsible for the fire and that is the guy whose flat it started in. Supposedly the fire started when his fridge explored and caught fire, so what the heck had he been doing to it to cause it to explore? Has anyone on here ever had a fridge explode and catch fire?
As for fitting sprinklers in each flat, that is daft though sprinklers Inthe stairways seem reasonable. To me the simplest solution is to provide each flat in a tower block with a CO2 extinguisher. They are effective and simple to use, require little maintenance and even when, as it's inevitable, you get an ass ole mucking about with them, they cause minimum damage.
Rgds
J.A.

[Fouro]

All High-Rises should have a Sprinkler System installed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-40293035

Fouro.

[Keith Tindell]

That is the problem with sprinklers fitted in the flat John, you have a small fire and the sprinklers operate, they will put the fire out, but the water damage could exceed the fire damage. Most hotels , flats etc should concentrate on protecting the means of escape for everyone, so sprinklers in those protected places should be fitted. Another mystery is how the fire managed to affect the stairway, there should have been fire check areas before it got to the stairs. As i said, i await the findings with interest, kt

[robpage]

I have heard an engineering theory on the fridge JA , the flats had a only just adequate with diversity power supply , when everything is on the supply voltage drops , the kilowatt consumption stays the same , the amps go up , 13 A fuse instead of 3A in the plug you can get 4 x the correct amps in , cables overheat , appliance catches fire , apparently not uncommon in high rise , was a building services engineer , so is feasible

yes it was the 11D Keith