Just Being Inquisitive.

[Fouro]

Prior to going to sea, did anyone of you serve an Engineering Apprenticeship in a paper mill?.
If so, and if you wanted to become a seagoing marine engineer, do you think this sort of Apprenticeship entitled you to apply and be accepted as a Junior Engineer Officer in the British Merchant Navy.

FOURO

[j.sabourn]

Sailed with one who served his time in a Singer Sewing machine factory, and one who served his time as a Blacksmith the old type shoeing horses went up from Geelong to Melbourne, the Commonwealth Games or the Olympics which had been held there the year before. just to see the stadiums.I say a singer sewing machine factory but may have been a razor blade factory thinking back.. Also 2 or 3 from down the pits. I don't see why not he would have been graded on the type of machinery he worked with. The old ships carpenter used to be a shipwright and was qualified to go as an engineer also. Sailed with one as second mate who had a mates ticket and was his ambition to go for masters, and then go after a 2nd and 1st class engineers, hope he made it. JWS Don't know about the legality of it but on a foreign flag the 2nd Engineer paid off and we promoted the Firemans cook to second engineer this was on a steamer. We also had no second mate and went that way for 11 months. Don't get carried away by the legality of shipping away from the old no longer hardly there Red Duster, once the best for regulations but no longer there only the bits of paper that are supposed to enforce it and only those who signed up for it. Cheers JWS

[Captain Kong]

I was apprenticed to De Havilland, making aeroplane engines and propellers, when I left school at 15, intending to join the MN as an Engineer.
3 months later the Managers Secretary who lived in the next street saw me in a Sea Cadet Uniform and asked me why was I in the Sea Cadets, Me being a bit thick at 15 years of age replied that I was going in the MN when I was qualified. she told the Manager, who had me in the office.
he said "So you want to join the Merchant Navy do you?"
Me again being a but thick said `Yes`.
So he says, " You can join tomorrow" I said `Can I?`, "Yes, you are finished get your things and leave, we train our Engineers to stay with us for life, not to go off somewhere else.Bye Bye,"
I went home and Dad went mad with me. A De Havilland , Apprenticeship was the most prized job in town.
I had to go down the Coal mine while awaiting a place at the Vindicatrix.
Brian
I met some engineers who served their time at the Horwich Loco Works in Bolton, the mad and Built Locomotives for Brtitain and export.

[robpage]

A lot of it used to depend on the size of the equipment shifting that you had work with paper Mills had some huge machinery so I would think that paper Mills would have been an ideal apprenticeship before going to sea .. I also sailed with more than one engineer who has served his time at Singer sewing machines in Glasgow I believe that they had casting and moulding machines where they actually manufactured the parts for singer machines and that was a game quite a heavy engineering to the best of my understanding. In this modern age I don't believe that the amount of Engineering that we had to do 40 + years ago happens I believe an awful lot of Shore squad work is involved .

[j.sabourn]

#3... Brian you should have thought a bit faster and said you were going to join the Fleet air arm reserves and emphased the reserves. I had all my papers filled in for going in the RN at 15 as a boy seaman. My old man would not sign them and got the backing of the headmaster at school who must have had a wrotten life during the war as a reservist in the navy. They both insisted on an apprenticeship in the MN. If only they knew it was the worst advice they could give. An apprenticeship at sea had more disadvantage than advantages in those days.JWS

[Peter F Chard]

The Pulp and Paper mills and Dairy Industry plants in NZ generally employ ex Marine Engineers to operate their power plants -- they have the knowledge and the temperament for continuous 24 hour per day operations. Cheers Peter in NZ.

[Fouro]

When I was a young engineering apprentice in the paper mill, I became a member of what was then known as the"black squad".
Although engineers worked normal hours during daytime, they were on 24 hour stand by should any of the mill machinery break down. No matter what time it was, I was always called out to assist them. The mill was in production 24 hours per day and breakdowns had to be repaired as quickly as possible.
When new machinery such as large centrifugal pumps came in, we quickly dismantled them and took measurements of the shafts and impellars. Our chief engineer was also an excellent pattern maker. He would make wooden patterns of the impellars which would then be taken to a pattern moulder in the local foundry. He then added his talents to the process and had his moulds cast in bronze or brass. The impellars were then returned to us which we machined in turning lathes. After machining them in the lathes we fitted them to the new shafts which we had already copied and machined.
Buying new pumps from the manufacturer was then out of the question.
Sorry to have bored you.

FOURO.

[j.sabourn]

Fouro, I gather by your name that you were 4th. Engineer during your main part at sea, and in charge of the 8 to 12 watch. How many engineers did they carry in your days. You have cleared something up for me though thanks, as had a cousin who served his time as draughtsman and pattern maker, never knew what a pattern maker did, and didn't see him often enough to ask. He went on to live in Bristol and worked for Rolls Royce for many years. Been dead a long time now though.. Going back to the ex Firemans cook promoted to 2nd. Engineer. When breaking your anchor cable many will remember the tapered pin that was used and held in position by soft lead at each end. We had occasion to lose this pin which was impossible to reassemble the cable without. The newly promoted 2nd engineer I asked him to come on the focsle for his advice. He came up looked at got his measure out took various measurements, I followed him down the E.R. it took him a good ten minutes to set up the Lathe and find a suitable piece of rod. This pin was tapered and had to be so, a bit more of Chinese arithmetic , and the pin was put in my hand 5 minutes later. Being the nice guy I am asked him if not too much trouble could he make me another half a dozen which he later did. He was equally chuffed with the bottle of whiskey he got. I think like a lot of us he was taking work when and where he could get and was in the Galley at the time he was there, A good man to have on a ship. JWS

[happy daze john in oz]

As an officers steward I saw and heard a lot of odd things at time.
There was one officer who was keen on any form of charity and liked to collect for them. One such charity was for guide dogs and to raise money he got all the other engineers, deck officers were not interested, to give him all their empty cig packets. He would soak them and the tin foil would come of, this is what he was collecting.
One sunny afternoon the chief engineer saw him asking what he was doing,

' collecting for guide dogs' he replied.

'Aye said Abercrombie, in his best Scottish accent, the way you go about your duties you may well need one'.

Apparently he was not that good at his job, he left at the end of that voyage.

[Ivan Cloherty]

#7 Not boring at all Fouro but educational, it's always interesting to learn of others experiences and glean a little/lot of knowledge along the way