tax dodging

[cappy]

ivan that was a pleasure to read...regards cappy

[Jim Brady]

Thank God attitudes had changed towards cadets by the time my son and boys and girls of his time came to serve their time as deck apprentice's.Yes they had todo all those things as described by Ivan it wasn't a walk in the park by any means but the difference maybe was that they were appreciated by the shipping company,well at least I know my son was.The shore captain would phone us here at home and keep us fully upto date with what was going on.They did something like 6 months at sea and then a 3 month sandwich course at a Nautical College,the college here being Riversdale where each cadet had his own flat and 3 meals a day all paid for by the company,class work 5 days Mon to Friday.I think they did about 4 sandwich courses which included their last where they took their 2nd mates.I had to sign in the sum of £2.000 that I would pay to the company if he failed to complete,that is what the company said it cost them to train the cadet for those 4 years.He was on an acceptable wage I think whilst training but we never asked him what he was paid and we never took any money from him.They also had studies todo during the course of the trip these were handed to the captain for him to mark and pass comment on the lads progress.I would be invited upto the mates cabin for a drink and a chat on docking day when I picked my son up.I expect a load of flack now,they had it to easy etc.I certainly don't expect any positive comment.
Regards.
jim.B.

[j.sabourn]

#92... Jim it is good to know in at least one scenario, of life at sea has changed. I was only ever on one easy ship among about 90+ and that was the one on the picture under my name, and was quite content to sit there the rest of my life. She was however under the MOD and came under the jurisdiction of the Admiralty where most things were above board and no pimping on expenses and conditions. Although there are some on this site who would of walked down the gangway on certain ships I sailed on, I don't hate those ships in that way, as were my home for a specified period of time and each one produced their own challenge and memories. My son now almost 50 asked me once why I didn't ask him to go to sea. The primary reason was I didn't want him to go though my experiences at that time re-shipping, if he had wanted to go however I would not have stopped him. I would have certainly been worried about his welfare though, we all think we are tougher than our kids, but think many would surprise us if they were put in similar situations. We were considered wage earners a long time before the kids are nowadays and get it into our minds that they are soft, I don't think they are. The ones always in trouble, stealing, joyriding as they call it, I blame their parents and the poor example that they have set for their kids, it seems to be a full time occupation with some families these days and is likely to stay that way, being passed down from father to son/daughter. Whoever thought they would see 14 year old girls fighting and rolling in the dirt. As regards shipping in general as I have said in the past the Australian shipping although many turn their noses up at Unions, these have fought for standards and achieved them and maintained the same out here, and people have short memories because if the Unions go, so does the work of Australians to a cheap maritime force. I am not a union basher or lover but do realize that they are necessary warts and all. As Brian Kong has often said our generation are a dying breed, the British Merchant Navy was given away by bad policy makers and in quite a few case of adventurous shipowners there for a quick buck, all with little thought of what they were discarding both in seafaring and the building and all the associate industries connected with shipping. As Ivan says all you possess is your name and your word, a lot of shipowners possessed neither as worked from a PO Box number and their word was not worth a #ank in most cases. Best of luck to your boy and know he will do you proud. Regards JS

[Red Lead Ted]

The apprenticeship was three and half years, and had little or no contact with navigation equipment all that time, most of the time was, chipping, painting, washing down, holystoning, sanding taffrails, cargo watching, bilge cleaning, though we did wear our uniforms at meal times because we were trainee officers!! did get a spells as QM and promoted to a Bunting Tosser during the Suez invasion, as for being taught navigation, etc absolute zilch, was self taught from books and looking out the porthole. As soon as I finished my time I was asked to go back as 3/m when I got my ticket, you could have used the raspberry as a foghorn. Took a job as 2/m on a Yellow Peril, thrown in at the deep end and learnt more actual navigation in the first three weeks than I did in three and a half years in a 'Liner Company' Spent many months on the coast before returning deep sea and the experience taught me that these coasting men had a more demanding navigation job than anyone deep sea and there were no 14/30 day passages to virtually relax and hope you came across another ship to break the monotony.

Did I hate my apprenticeship days? not really, they taught me to not to expect everything on a platter, they taught me self reliance, though I at many times felt like jacking it in, they taught me to read the small print, they taught me to honour my signature and complete the indentures, my father had told me that the only thing you ever really own, is your signature, always honour it. Again we were from an era where-in we were little hard buggers having survived the rigours of the war years and no doubt that helped in our attitude to life and didn't expect everything on a plate. I was disappointed that I had not learnt my intended craft at a rate I wanted to learn it but in the end it was only a passing phase in a long life and made me determined to succeed as well as I was able in the future, it also taught me to ensure that any cadet who sailed with me as 3/m upwards was never ignored and if I could help in their learning process I wouldn't stick a bloody paintbrush in their hand and say get on with it you're here to work and I hope I succeeded in that, if nothing else

Ivan, Most on this forum can identify with you, We done it ourselves. And that's the chance I want to see our youngsters get today, A days pay for a days graft, If you had been on a zero hour contract doing your time, Would you have still honoured your signature, I doubt whether I would, The advice my father gave to me I prefer nobody owns you, And never have a problem walking away, And I never have, As for standing for local councillor could I count on your vote.

[j.sabourn]

Terry, I agree with your principles in general. I believe every man or woman has the right to withdraw their labour, that is part of what people call Democracy. However when you advance that in to the realms of shipping where everyone apart from the master signed an agreement against their name with the amount of money they were to be paid, this being a legal document with all the relevant conditions attached was an agreement to be adhered to. If you walked away from you paid the penalties of such. When you signed on a ship you had a legal right to your wages and if the owner became insolvent you also had a lien on the ship to pay such. I know of at least one case where the sistership of the one I was on, was sold in Montreal to pay the crews wages. The master for those unaware had no such right to wages amassed from the selling of the ship, as to all intents and purposes as far as the law was concerned he was the owner. These governments that come out and say they are going to make strikes illegal, to me are talking out of the top of their head or perhaps the other end, do that and you are no longer a Democracy. However personally if I came to an agreement with an owner would fulfil my obligations to the best of my ability. However that changes when he doesn't fulfil his which has happened in a few cases with myself, they have changed the rules themselves and all my obligations were no longer on the table. JS

[Red Lead Ted]

John. Every ship I signed on, I was there to sign off, I admit I had run ins with certain ratings and officers and was logged and flogged when I returned to the U.K. I am not picking on officers here but a lot of them where senior ratings and that was that. I drew the line there and carried out duties handed down to me. It was when it became personal which you know only to well at times it did. That I awaited the right time to lets say don't get mad get even, As for the episode you mention where the skipper never got paid, He just like myself had to accept that was what he signed he new the rules just as I did. Just an example I knocked a fellow seaman around the bridge in front of the 2nd mate one morning because I was falling through on watch to many times and that was never me so I stayed awake one night and sat in my room in the dark as you know your door was never locked at sea and although he left the bridge to give me a shout he never entered or shouted in my room. I saw red ran up on the bridge 1 minute to 4am confronted him and in front of the 2nd mate gave him a good kicking could you blame me, They where also the articles we signed to adhere to unfortunately for me the 2nd mate did not agree with my actions although the rest of the crew did. And I paid the price. Just a day in the life Regards John Terry.

[Des Taff Jenkins]

Hi Ted.
I had a similar incident on one ship, a cadet that I used to call on the 4to8 at seven bells am would invariable go back to sleep then tell the mate that I had forgotten to call him, so I took a bucket up to his cabin and used to throw it in the door, it rattled like hell around the cabin and he jumped out of his bunk S&*ting himself, the mate came in to find out what the hell was going on, I told him he was getting me into trouble by going back to sleep, the cadet got the stick not me.
Cheers Des

redc.gif

[Ivan Cloherty]

Ivan, Most on this forum can identify with you, We done it ourselves. And that's the chance I want to see our youngsters get today, A days pay for a days graft, If you had been on a zero hour contract doing your time, Would you have still honoured your signature, I doubt whether I would, The advice my father gave to me I prefer nobody owns you, And never have a problem walking away, And I never have, As for standing for local councillor could I count on your vote.

Yes Terry you could count on my vote, just because we have differing views on 'some' things, I always look at the overall picture, so you still come out on top

Yes, I would honour my signature, always have, always will, and there are some things I've signed which I later wished I hadn't but saw it through, even when it cost me money, but it's called experience, and it's the way I was dragged up.

[j.sabourn]

My wife doesn"t. She promised to obey me, and has never done so. JS

[Ivan Cloherty]

.I expect a load of flack now,they had it to easy etc.I certainly don't expect any positive comment.
Regards.
jim.B.

Jim why on earth would you expect any flack on that post, because I'm assuming your comments were aimed at me, My only comment is, thank god things have changed for the positive, but even in my days at sea there were companies which valued their cadets, when I was 3/m with Ropners the cadets got paid overtime and study time and I certainly helped with their studies in my off time and also on the 2000 - 2400 watch whilst mid ocean they would go on the foc'le and I would send them morse on the all-round light. Unfortunately the likes of PSNC in my day never had any regard for their juniors. Even when I was Supt in Pakistan I did the occasional trip and the Pakistani cadets were glad to see me, as I made sure they got study time and also the morse lessons at night and they were willing learners. So I'm glad your son had a positive experience, I was relating my own experiences and as said there must have been hundreds like me, however Jim it did beat sweeping chimnies