Derelict Cruise Ship M/V Lyubov Orlova Abandoned East of Canada

[j.sabourn]

Credability... If reading some of these posts this one especially at this moment in time. What a situation the shipping world is in compared to our day. Basic things like what is a ship.... a 3 or 4 masted vessel square rigged on at least 3. What is the purpose of a cargo ship.... To carry good from one port to another and for this purpose the vessel is divided into compartments called hold by a system of bulkheads. All basic schoolboy stuff. As we got further into our working life more was revealed. Now a ship is not as described, and suppose a different stance is put on a cargo ship. Britain had a world wide reputation as the leaders in ship building and seafarers and were considered the best. I retired in 2002 and although saw all these so called advantages in technology, saw the absolute decline of British Seafaring and shipping, in fact we as a Nation went backwards as regards our standing in the world. I find it INCREDIBLE that a vessel should be allowed to float around unattended in the North Atlantic for a period at present of over a year. Has no representation been made to all these so called maritime powers for the removal of. In our days would have been quite simple if in the same situation, the RN would be sent out to use it as target practice and sink it. It is a hazard to navigation among other things. I also assume if the UK still puts out it will be documented in the weekly Notices to Mariners as such. I am extremely surprised that this has received very little exposure in the World Press, maybe they are too busy worrying about the shark population. The world wants to get real, billions are spent on war games and propping up other failing economies, and yet a fraction of what is wasted cant be used for the removal of dangerous obstructions. My local council does even better than some of these maritime powers. If I didn't know better I would feel as though this was an April fools joke. John Sabourn

[robpage]

I would expect that if the Canadians or anyone else threatens to sink it the greenies will scream about pollution , the oil in the tanks , the death of all the poor rats they have rights too , and like Lord Nelson , if they all put the telescope to their blind eye the problem will be out of sight , personally let someone's navy sink it , and let Greenpeace save the rats

[j.sabourn]

Let the greenies have a sit in on her. No one is going to stop them. May get rid of two problems at the same time. JS If she is in International waters I fail to see why Canada has any say in the matter. If in Canadian waters is their responsibility for them to sue who is responsible and to get rid of. JS

[robpage]

Once out of their territorial waters the CAnadians suddenly appeared to lose interest , and they waved it goodbye , so they were the last hand in the tiller , so to speak

[j.sabourn]

Pollution ... no one wants pollution of their waterways and beaches. However think a lot of people go over the top on this at times. Think of the many hundreds of ships lost in the North Atlantic during the last war. Never hear of pollution. When Saddam opened the taps into the Persian Gulf after the first Gulf War the world was aghast. Within 2 years the gulf was clear again by natural means. I did an oil Dispersant course in Fremantle and one of the oil inspectors for the so called disaster told me the best means of any oil discharge re pollution is nature itself. There s more natural discharges of oil from the sea bed than all the accidents of the past. I myself can now state that years ago I saw 200 tons of bunkers pumped over the side in the North Atlantic as was an embarrassment to have on board and was taken up cargo space, I must state at the time this was not against regulations of the day. My final solution if no salvage forthcoming would be to pump out any reasonable amount of oil and sink her... so simple. Regards John S.

[Keith Tindell]

I am totally surprise that the biggest religion in the world ie money, has not cured this problem, surely this thing must be worth big money in scrap?, i realise that towage fees would be huge, but to just leave this thing floating and a hazard to navigation , is crazy. If this thing were to come ashore in Ireland or somewhere else, who foots the bill then?, just my thoughts KT

[John Arton]

Until MARPOL came into force in 1973? there was virtually no regulations regarding discharges from ships at sea.
My first job at sea was down a tank on a crude oil tanker scooping up and dumping over the side all the crude oil sludge left after tank cleaning. This consisted of the natural waxes, sand etc. found in crude oil and we were basically returning to nature a natural product of the earths make-up. It is a well known fact that after the Torrey Canyon disaster the supposed massive pollution of the beaches around the Sciliy Isles never occurred due to the wave motion breaking up the coagulated crude oil and the natural enzimes in the ocean either eating it or breaking it down along with the natural evaporation of the lighter parts of the crude oil. Even after refining many products will naturally disperse, look how long the French beaches and oyster beds took to recover after the Amoco Cadiz disaster. The harvest from the rejuvenated oyster beds was/is far greater than before the disaster.
I am not saying we should go back to the old days of indiscrimenatley dumping all our rubbish into the oceans as many petro-chemicals etc. will not be able to be dispersed or natuarally broken down and no one wants black oily crap on their beach.
When I first started carrying vegatable oils we used to tank wash directly into the Maas whilst discharging in Rotterdam and it was only when some locals started complaining about the COLOUR of the water that we had to stop. Crude veg oil and coconut oil are naturally occuring products and the amount of fish that used to feed on our tank washings was amazing to see. Some of the worst so called pollutants are the petro chemicals used in the plastics and clothing industries but even these tend to either evaporate naturally (Benzenes and alcohols) or solidfy and sink to the bottom. The Ivelo Sun carrying 7000 tons of styrene monomer sunk off the French coast back in the early 2000's and it was touted that massive pollution would occur. Actual result was next to none pollution and examinations of the wreck has shown that the cargo is turning into a solid block of plastic.
New regulations coming into force are aimed at preventing the discharge of hatch sweepings of such products as iron ore and coal but as these are again naturally occurring products some sense has prevailed and the dumping of these sweepings has to take place when the vessel is well away from any land.
rgds
JA

[j.sabourn]

Dispersant... re oil... a large percentage of ships in the North sea and other oil producing areas carry oil dispersant. I have only ever used this once. At other times getting permission from the shore authorities to use takes too long as the effects of using in most cases is worse than the oil itself. There are always going to be small spills of various amounts, especially when disconnecting hoses, and the usual practice was to churn the residue in the water with the ships screw going ahead and astern for a length of time, probably this may be news to our green brothers, who are only too keen to sue some master in port for a small spill when bunkering. In fact would like to see some of them out in the oil fields especially in winter may show them what working for a living is really like. I have also worked on an oil recovery vessel which means putting out floating booms, these however are not very effective in a 3 metre swell with a 2 metre wave on top of it. Is all very well listening to these theorists on pollution, half of what they come out with is pure crap anyway. John S. PS hoses are all fitted with non return valves as know that is what some are going to say, a bucket of oil makes one hell of a big slick and can be spotted for miles, Hoses are quite liable to part in bad weather if cant hold the ship alongside the rig another source of a probable very minor spillage. John S.

[alf corbyn]

ivan. i meant the milage not the position. 1500mm