British Tanker Company Apprenticeship Indentures

[cappy]

they were always known as apprentices to me......why were they changed to cadets......a cadet is in a academy .....the apprentice was at sea .....nothing stays the same ....why change it to cadet ...just my thought cappy

[Captain Kong]

In Blu Flu they were called Midshipmen. or Middies.

[cappy]

In Blu Flu they were called Midshipmen. or Middies.

with no disrespect to them in blue flu......we had a midi at the bottom of our yard .....regards cappy

[j.sabourn]

#21... Cappy a Cadet and an apprentice were two different things. A cadet could go from company to company, signed Articles and paid off as normal. An apprentice was a serf of the shipowner for 4 years. The common thing to do today is they are all called Cadets, don't even know if there are such things as Indentures anymore. They certainly don't appear to have to do 4 years sea time before being examined. As one says times change. It took 4 years to train an AB, a lot of the old type companys insisted the 3rd year apprentices sat for their EDHs certificate. This was also useful for sitting for 2nd.Mates as you might find an examiner to go easy on the seamanship side in the orals. The 4 years also had to be done on a Foreign Going Trading Ship. Nowadays you are probably likely to see a youngster go through all his seagoing career and never having served on one. Cheers JS

[j.sabourn]

Addittion to above ...a midi is a glass of beer here. Maybe also when we get newly qualified ships mates on here they all seem to quote this O.O.W. certificate, which I assume is Officer of the Watch. Which is as I have always maintained a very important but very small part of a mates job. As regards EDH certificates I believe Elder Dempsters used to send some of their Cadets/Apprentices for, I was told this by an ex E.D. man, perhaps those who sailed with EDs can confirm or deny this. JS

[Ivan Cloherty]

they were always known as apprentices to me......why were they changed to cadets......a cadet is in a academy .....the apprentice was at sea .....nothing stays the same ....why change it to cadet ...just my thought cappy

Cappy 'CADET!!' was easier to shout!

[j.sabourn]

A lot of us had a similar name to Brians neighbour. Hey You. JS

[Keith Tindell]

With regard to EDH tickets, i believe that all the sea training schools in the later years , all the inmates came out with EDH tickets, so all the deckboy, Jos Sos ranks went out of the window. So following on from that they would have had a Lifeboat certificate, so went to sea fully qualified having never been to sea, KT

[John Arton]

With regard to the EDH ticket, as part of the O.O.W certificate candidates have to have completed a 5 day course at an established training school in order to obtain one. They will not be issued with a O.O.W. certificate without this plus a couple of others such as HELM (Human resources).
These are usually undertaken in Phase 1 of there cadetship but proof of sea service is required before they are actually issued.
rgds
JA

[Captain Kong]

In 1990, I had just taken over a ship and I was taking the ship through the Downs to catch a tide in London. and an "AB" was on the wheel , I told him to ease her over to starboard a little to give an on coming ship a little more sea room at a dogs leg in the channel , he went hard a port right across the bows of the other ship and just missed a collision. I had to knock him off the wheel and take over. He told me he didn't know what starboard was or anything, never been on a wheel before, it was his first trip to sea . He went to Gravesend for two weeks and came out with an ABs Certificate and a Lifeboat Certificate and had never seen a ship in his life.
Whose stupid idea was that? to change a system that had worked safely for years, and when was it changed, from a 12 week Seamanship Course and Deck Boy, JOS, SOS, then an EDH for four years then AB ..????
that was an Apprenticeship to be a top AB.
So it was Deck Boy at 16 then take the EDH exam at 18 and then four years as EDH before changing it to an ABs Certificate. So it was a Six Year apprenticeship.
now two weeks and no experience.

Brian