Burial at Sea vs Interment

[Rob Will]

Good Day:

My greatx2 grandfather, John Will, was a mate on the "Rose", a barque out of Sunderland, England. The Rose was returning from Alexandria, Egypt, on Oct 22, 1854, when John died onboard of cholera. His naval records say that he was interred at Cagliari on the Island of Sardinia.

My question is for the experts here. Given that John died onboard of an infectious disease, is it perhaps more likely that John was actually buried at sea, rather than in Sardinia? Perhaps his death was simply registered there.

All informed opinions welcome. Thanks very much in advance.

[Doc Vernon]

Hello Rob
A good question and perhaps that may well be the case. I dont have a Sub at present for FMP Deaths at Sea, but i do see that there is such Registered there, but says Wages and Effects Report so not sure what actual info there may be
Cheers

First name(s) John

Last name Will

Year 1854

Place Rose

Country Great Britain

Archive reference BT 153

Source Registers Of Wages And Effects Of Deceased Seamen, 1852-1889

[j.sabourn]

If the records say he was interred in Sardinia then he will probably have a registered grave there. If you have doubts the other way to check would be in the official log book of the Rose , where the information will be in Births Deaths and Marriages. If it is then his place of internment would or should be in the Registry office in Sunderland .
JS

[Rob Will]

Thanks for your replies. The Wages and Effects register is a great source for this kind of thing.

- - - Updated - - -

Great suggestion re the Sunderland Registry. Thanks very much for your insights.

[Rob Will]

Here you go DocAttachment 34334. Seven down


Trees on Ancestry Rob, suggest he was also known as: Ogilvie (AKA John) Will.

There are UK and Ireland Masters and Mates Certificates, 1850-1927 available but would need you to clarify where in Scotland he was born, Dunbartonshire, Aberdeenshire, Angus to name a few.

Thanks for the document, Marion. That is definitely the right guy. He was born in 1817 in Peterhead, Scotland, and baptized Ogilvie. He went to sea at age 12, and went by the name John for most of his life. Died on the Rose at age 37.

[j.sabourn]

Maybe the Peterhead registry office should also be contacted if necessary. JS

[Rob Will]

Maybe the Peterhead registry office should also be contacted if necessary. JS

Maybe. He lived in Sunderland from at least 1840, and that was the home port of the Rose. His Mate’s and Master’s certificates were also both issued in Sunderland. I will try the Peterhead registry if the Sunderland inquiry doesn’t yield results. Thanks for the suggestion.

[j.sabourn]

#8 The Sunderland Shipping office brings back memories for me , but is way past the time of your relative and goes back to just 1957 when I was young and free or so I thought . Was like a canary escaping from a cage after 4 years apprenticeship. One of 3 girls I was going out with at the time worked in the Newcastle Mercantlle Marine Office who shall remain anonymous . She took me one time as her guest to a party they were having in the Sunderland one and all the shipping masters were there together with all the clerks from both offices , there must have been about 60 there with the usual loud mouthed ones, one in particular was expounding how he had paid off a ship that day , and had bollocked the old man for some discrepancy or something. I was getting a bit hot under the collar, and my girl friend of the evening could see this and said , my friend here John goes to sea . Immediately all talk at the table stopped and any further talk about shipping ceased for the time I was there. Anyhow about 10 years later they were redundant , but one piece of information have never found out, what was their redundancy pay outs compared to the seafarers who kept them employed . JS.

[Rob Will]

#8 The Sunderland Shipping office brings back memories for me , but is way past the time of your relative and goes back to just 1957 when I was young and free or so I thought . . Immediately all talk at the table stopped and any further talk about shipping ceased for the time I was there. Anyhow about 10 years later they were redundant , but one piece of information have never found out, what was their redundancy pay outs compared to the seafarers who kept them employed . JS.

Super story - history for me is all about the stories.

It’s why I asked about burial at sea vs interment. Doesn’t really matter, but it helps tell the tale.

[j.sabourn]

Rob death at sea although we joke about it or may seem to , was a very sad time. Seamen lived in very close proximity to each other and were very few secrets between them , on my very first trip to sea we had one death due to natural causes this was on passage from Belfast to Cuba. In those days normal or what seemed to be normal death at sea was usually accompanied by burial at sea , this was mainly to avoid delays to ship by being quarantined and all the official enquires . We had what I would consider a hard case crowd at the time , being my first trip, and was surprised to see the tears flowing when the ship was stopped and the old man said to us all standing around the canvas shrouded body , are you all satisfied this man is dead .? This was before he read the burial service. I for one who had to sit with the body with the other 3 apprentices doing our trick watching for any sign of life for 5 or 6 days would have been willing to swear on oath he was . JS.

That same trip to Cuba was pre Castro. The same hard case crowd noticed on going ashore all in a line dressed to the Nines in 2 and 3 piece suits collar and tie , and as it was summer in the northern hemisphere was trying to figure why , all was explained next morning when they staggered back in their underpants . JS..