British Coastal Convoys WWII

[Patricia Meiring]

I would be grateful if members can assist me with the following question :

During WWII my father served as an engineer in the merchant navy. Many of his voyages in the Atlantic and Mediterranean were escorted but the following trips were sailed in convoy but not escorted. I believe that generally ships did not stop to assist another in the convoy if a ship was attacked as it put the whole convoy in danger. Was this the case with coastal convoys where there was no rescue ships?


FN convoys - Thames to Firth of Forth

8 December, 1942 – no escorts
May, 1943 – no escorts
November, 1943 – no escorts

EN convoys - from Methil, Fife, Scotland to Oban via Loch Ewe.
December, 1942 – no escorts
May, 1943 - no escorts
December, 1943 – no escorts

WN convoys - from Clyde, Oban, Loch Ewe around the north of Scotland to Firth of Forth
April, 1943 – no escorts
October, 1943 – no escorts from Loch Ewe


FS – Firth of Forth to the Thames
April, 1943 – no escorts
October, 1943 – no escorts

BB - Belfast to the Bristol channel
June, 1943 – no escorts

Thankyou in anticipation of your assistance.

Patricia

[Des Taff Jenkins]

Hi Patricia
That happened both on the coast and deep sea, it wasn't always convenient to provide escorts to single ships. As an example my brother was on an Athel Tanker and they went around the Mediterranean without an escort.
The East coast of England was a vey busy place during the war with ships sailing daily, escorts where in short supply.
Des

[j.sabourn]

#1. Patricia although you point out the fact of non protected coastal convoys you forget to mention they had air coverage , much more formidable than corvettes with a much more greater striking power against u boats and e boats . Coastal command had a good success rate I believe and were within minutes of any such convoys. JS

[Patricia Meiring]

Thankyou for this information JS. I did not realise this support protected the coastal convoys.

[j.sabourn]

Most people have a preconceived idea of U-boats brought about by fictional movies. If you talk to a submariner from wartime years you will find most attacks were done from the surface , they dived to escape detection after an attack. Depth of water was their advantage. Depth charges had to be set at an estimated depth they hoped the submarine was at, and a direct hit was never accepted as a sure thing , it was the shock wave of a near miss which destroyed a U-Boat. In shallow water they were at a distinct disadvantage as the shock waves were much more severe . An aircraft dropping a depth charge from overhead was more likely to get a kill than a surface vessel rolling or catapulting them 50 yards astern and then getting the ship and its hull out of the blast area. The biggest danger to coastal navigation were the E boats fast surface vessels who could get in and out fast and had a good fire power , speed was their advantage , but they were never as fast as an aircraft. I do not speak from experience only others experiences as there were many around at one time when the truth was there to listen to, today you have Hollywoods version of the truth. One was lucky I would say if a survivor would talk to a civilian for many years after the war, you will find this in most cases involving death where they were involved. It is an instinct to keep those dead intact and not divulge anything they wouldnt want divulged. Even without a war to blame fatalities on, there are still many deaths at sea which Joe Public never hears about. There were at least 2 that I was involved with personally , one was a downed Tornado aircraft in the Irish sea about 1979 , it was still on the secret list so had to be recovered , a Tornado aircraft carries 2 pilots who were not British but French and Italian I believe , they did not eject, so had to be recovered also. It was estimated that the aircraft hit the sea at 1000 knots so you can imagine the state of whatever body parts and wreckage recovered was. The other was a Downed Sea King RN helicopter with dead crew in the English channel I can talk about those two as did not know any of them personally but if had of done so, would not have been so open about it , I am sure. Regards JS.

PS It Would be hard today I should imagine of finding a ww2 submariner but there are still a few of us who remember them, and the knowledge and truth that they had and passed on to us , should also be passed on. This serves 2 purposes , their memory , and the truth as it is. JS .

[j.sabourn]

Victoria my sister was born in London in 1942, I would of been 6. My old man was shipped out to Burma in 1942 , so my sister never saw him until he came home in 1946. I had trouble recognising him , he was gaunt and completely yellow with the jaundice looked to me like a replica of a japanese we were led to believe looked like. My sister would go into tantrums whenever she saw him , the poor old man must have felt lousy. He had toothache shortly after getting home so went to the dentist and had every tooth in his head extracted , the dentist didnt want to do it , but his personal safety was the alternative , so he took the safe way out. So there he was 31 years of age , yellow in colour , gaunt as a scarecrow weighing in about 8 stone and toothless. The screams from my sister increased. Cheers JS

[happy daze john in oz]

My father was stationed in Gibraltar for most of the war.
I never got to know him but from what mum and other family members told me it was no picnic.

He was in transport corps involved with sending troops, supplies and ships to various parts of the north Africa campaign.
Life was a day to day proposition with the rock regularly attacked.
There was also a field hospital there taking in wounded from all over the region.

Back in 2017 we were there and I had a good look around.
Nothing left of those days apart from the cemetery with graves from not just WW23 but the time of Nelson as well.

But as a strategic post it was not the sort of place i think I would want to be in such a conflict.

[Doc Vernon]

My late Father and his younger brother were also in Gibraltar during the War, but in different Sections and Forces. Also in Malta, Italy, North Africa for a time , as well as other places during the conflict!
A hard time for all those concerned, and we must never forget them and what the did for our Freedom!
Thank You

[Patricia Meiring]

Thankyou for your valuable and comprhensive account JS. It reminded me of a quote from - Hodgson, D.L. (1998). A Merchant Navy Man’s Story. An Engineer Officer’s Wartime experience in the New Zealand Shipping Company 1939 – 1945. New Zealand. Spectrum Print. p. 54.

“Nothing could be more futile than to suggest, as many are prone to do, that we should

‘forget about the war’. It has been well said that “it would be wrong if generations grew up

ignorant of our family’s part in the catastrophe, and unaware of the sacrifices made for them…

it is truly a right thing that the services of those who fought and laboured and suffered, and

those who sustained grave and heavy responsibilities, should be recorded as an example or

warning to later generations as the only real memorial”

[Patricia Meiring]

Most people have a preconceived idea of U-boats brought about by fictional movies.
PS It Would be hard today I should imagine of finding a ww2 submariner but there are still a few of us who remember them, and the knowledge and truth that they had and passed on to us , should also be passed on. This serves 2 purposes , their memory , and the truth as it is. JS .

Thankyou for your post JS - I have replied further down the thread.
With Kind Regards,
Patricia