Deep sea.

[j.sabourn]

#11. In all seriousness Duke I would think most deep sea men of European birth would consider the continental shelf or the 100 fathom line. Their own idea of where deep sea started and finished . JS

[Duke Drennan]

To be honest, I wasn’t as much thinking about actual depth as I was in particular voyages such as a B.A. run, Oz or Japan, that sort of trip. I mean, I would hardly consider a run down to the Med as deep sea.

[j.sabourn]

That’s what they call today middle trade. There is a whole new Mickey Mouse structure of certification . Some sailing as master with a masters endorsement , attached to something that could be called master 2 3 4 or 5. Dont have too much interest in it anymore. So never read the small print. Or the little map inside where you could go or not for those not being able to read. Cheers JS.

[Ivan Cloherty]

To be honest, I wasn’t as much thinking about actual depth as I was in particular voyages such as a B.A. run, Oz or Japan, that sort of trip. I mean, I would hardly consider a run down to the Med as deep sea.

A round trip down the Medi with general cargo could take 6 to 8 weeks with numerous ports, a BA round trip could take 6 to 8 weeks, what tramp men would think of as bus runs as they were away from 7 - 24 months. The Medi run would have been a lot harder work for deckies in and out of port every few days with no long ocean passages, but didn't make them lesser seamen because they had not traversed the Atlantic ocean, you can get some real crap weather and seas in the Med. So a lot depends upon what yardstick you want to use, bus runs suited some as time away was usually predictable, tramps suited others because of the unpredictability and the chance of seeing new places, people who spent 40 years plus on those bus runs never had the experience of sailing through the Panama or Suez canals, experiences not to be missed, especially the former, although you could get educational reading at Suez!!

Whether trawling, coasting, short sea, deep sea, all involved different skills, but all required participants to be seamen and they soon adapted to each others environment when joining the vessel whether by choice or circumstance. I did all four, some by choice others by circumstance, but was always aware than the water was deeper than my height. I enjoyed all four, but tramping gave me more of the world than the others and taught me much about places that would have been mere names on an atlas had I not tramped around the world.

[Keith Tindell]

I did Medi trips on 3 x Ellerman Papayani ships in 59-60, they were hard work, and sometimes 2-3 ports in one day. We would creep into small ports, sometimes to just pick up 20-30 crates of dried fruit. I enjoyed those trips, and remember in those days tourism was very small, who remembers a Medi holiday at that time, i did not know of anyone. Those ports were really small and you met the real Greece, and real Tavernas. But i agree, i preferred the trampers, never really knowing where you were off to next, and knowing you were away for a long time, kt

[j.sabourn]

#14 one trip I did down the medi was with China Clay from If remember right was from Fowey to Savona then brought back salt from Ibezia to Belfast and was a total new experience for me and that was as late as 1986. Other trips down the meddy were in conjunction with what you call deep sea trips a bit longer in length. However it was the powers that be that changed the structure of trading terms from coastwise and deepsea during Euro times and well after the Seamans strike of 66. Probably to make everyone equal or some other excuse for the Blocs modern advancement. JS

[Duke Drennan]

“ tramping gave me more of the world than the others and taught me much about places that would have been mere names on an atlas had I not tramped around the world.“

I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment Ivan. Thanks.

[Malcolm Lawrence]

Deep Sea to me is when your toes cant reach the bottom

[Michael Jobson]

What exactly constitutes “deep sea”. I never considered a run up the Lakes to be deep sea, am I wrong? I generally looked at any trip south of the equator as deep sea.

.
I'm not sure 'deep sea' was an official category. Cf. in the UK 'Foreign-going' (FG), as opposed to 'Home Trade' (passenger ship) which was, and still may be, up to 600 miles from the UK. It would be interesting to hear what applied in other countries such as Canada or the US.

[Ivan Cloherty]

.
I'm not sure 'deep sea' was an official category. .

No deep sea was never an 'official' category, it was seamen's parlance between seamen and seamen knew what it meant, the same as we knew what 'coasting' and 'trawling' meant which also were not actual categories. It was also used in the Shipping Federation by the clerks, who would say, 'I've got a coasting job, anyone interested' which was quite different to saying 'I have a coaster job available' the former meaning I have a deep sea ship on a coasting run going from London to Liverpool, etc. we knew what he meant, we didn't have to have it spelt out to us. Just the clerk saying I have one of Ropners or Harrisons, Hogarths was enough to make some run a mile. I was never asked or told 'there is a Foreign Going vessel available' or there is 'A Home Trade vessel available'