Ship licences

[David Thomas]

I am trying to find out more about the Waipawa (Shaw Savill).
She was built with a capacity for twelve passengers, apparently the maximum permitted in a cargo ship without taking out a special passenger licence. However, I have a passenger manifest for 1/Jun/46 showing 24 passengers as per an earlier post.
I also have a document that suggests that Waipawa was issued with i general licence on 6/Mar/46. Did this enable her to carry 24 passengers legitimately or does this have some other meaning.
I do not understand the different types of licence and cannot find any documents on the internet that clarify this.
I would also be interested in any site that exists that would enable me to find out what licences were issued to Waipawa and when? Does anyone know of any such site?
Thanks in advance, Dave Thomas.

[John Arton]

David
The licence you talk about would be her Cargo Ship Safety Certificate and on it would state something along the lines "Cargo vessel certified to carry X number of Passengers"
and hospital equipment would have to be carried and supplied by the ship owner, this could be done on a voyage by voyage basis with an addendum to its Certificate made by its Flag State Surveyor. This duty could be done by the vessels class surveyor if its Flag State had passed its powers for surveying vessels onto the relevant Classification Society.
rgds
JA

[David Thomas]

John,

Thank you for your reply. But, I think there's more to it than a safety certificate.
In a book entitled 'The flag of the Southern Cross' written in 1939 by Frank Bowen, the phrase 'these ships went to the full number of twelve passengers, which was permitted in a cargo ship without taking out a special passenger licence' is used referring to the W class ships including the Waipawa.
In the Board of Trade document that I have found in the National Archives which appears to be the log of the Waipawa, the phrase 'general licence issued 6/3/46 for trade between UK and Aust &/or N.Z.' appears.
The term licence is used rather than certificate.
To me this suggests that at that time perhaps the licencing arrangements were different from those pertaining today.

[Ivan Cloherty]

in the 40's to 70's before they disappeared, 12 passenger ships were the norm on liner trades (regular runs) and the vessel had to be equipped with an isolation area, this was generally a hospital cabin situated on the boat deck, very rarely inside the accommodation, where an illness could spread like wild fire. If a vessel carried more than 12 passengers she had to carry a doctor, an expense shipowners did not want to bear, extra cabin, extra salary, extra steward, extra laundry, extra victualling for someone who would virtually be a passenger. So vessels went from the 12 passenger class to the 18/24 passenger class where-in the extra revenue earned from the passengers would cover the additional costs by having a doctor on board, most liner trades were 12/24/36 passengers, any more than that would involve extra lifeboat capacity/davits and a host of other facilities including crew. 12 passenger ships were probably the best revenue earners as these passengers didn't demand much, a library, a deck chair and an evening bar, they were not usually pleasurers but people going out to relieve other people who had finished their period of service on 'foreign station' be it South America, Africa, Middle East, far East and Asia

[Jim Brady]

Ivan in PSNC where we carried 12 passengers do you ever remember carrying a Dispenser.As far as I remember he was a supernumerary and was paid one shilling per month.We carried one such person on the Cotopaxi and from what I remember he was a pharmacist and fancied a trip to sea which was a cheap way of doing it,he gave out the codine although I think he gave more jabs than codine.He tried to get my pantry boy barred out of the pantry for you know what.I believe many pharmacist did these trips with PSNC.
Regards.
Jim.B.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Never on the PSNC ships I sailed on Jim, the job usually fell to the 2/m and 3/m, although on my final trip as apprentice with them the task fell to me, I only gave a couple of jabs and that was after leaving Beunaventura a proper one horse town in those days (50's) , however on second thoughts I don't think the horse had even arrived, what a dangerous dump it was. May have been pharmacists on the more modern vessels but the 'S' class were not noted for spare accommodation, maybe they were working their passage out to station. On trampers it was usually the Ch Stwd who was 'Doc', don't know why that was when First Aid Certificates were compulsory for all deck officers, even uncertificated 3/ms
Regards

[Peter F Chard]

My recollection is that a cargo ship was just that so long as no more than 12 passengers were carried and the total number on board was under 100 persons without a doctor. These trips were always fully booked during my time with P&O's cargo ships to the far East, mostly elderly and very rich widows escaping the UK winters and hoping to snag a Toy Boy for the duration !! Regards Peter in NZ.

[Ivan Cloherty]

My recollection is that a cargo ship was just that so long as no more than 12 passengers were carried and the total number on board was under 100 persons without a doctor. These trips were always fully booked during my time with P&O's cargo ships to the far East, mostly elderly and very rich widows escaping the UK winters and hoping to snag a Toy Boy for the duration !! Regards Peter in NZ.

And did they get you Peter ????????

[Captain Kong]

I never saw any kind of dispenser at all on Blue Star, they carried 12 passengers to the Cape and on to OZ and back, except homeward bound on the Adelaide Star a passenger with his wife on a one way trip to Liverpool was a Doctor, so maybe getting a free trip home. the only cargo ship I ever saw a medic, was on a Blue Funnel Sam Boat, no passengers except the Bosun who spent most of the six month trip cuddling a whisky bottle in his bunk.
The TARKWA of EDs in 1953, had a doctor, an alcoholic and totally incapable. When I had two broken legs and a broken arm after falling off the mast, he told the Mate I was fit to work as I had one good arm. So the crowd carried me out on deck, they gave me a chipping hammer, a pot of red lead and a brush. Then the Monsoon came down and all hands ran to the mess room for shelter leaving me out in it.
Not a happy chappy.
Brian

[Peter F Chard]

As Schultz in Hogans Heroes used to say --- " I know nothing !! " Regards Peter in NZ.