Chief Stewards Info

[j.sabourn]

As regards a previous post where the master walked away and went home from South Korea. He was totally unused to this method of feeding as had been on British ships all his life, he was in fact over 65 and retired. We stored in Rotterdam and he gave the Indian Butla about 7000 pounds to pay off the Chandler as that was what the Bill was. I said to him hoping to make him aware of the system that the Chandler would be giving the Butla 700 pounds back. He was incensed with this had me call the Butla up and took the 700 pounds off him and put back into the kitty for food elsewhere, the Butla was in tears. Later on passage Hawaii to South Korea we received superfluous damage due to heavy weather broken handrails and derrick crutches. He sent a cable and said to me he expected the company to send a superintendent out to see to the damage getting fixed. I said he was living in a different world, back came the owners answer, let the mate arrange repair gangs on arrival and send us the Bill. This was probably why he walked off the ship in Korea. It was not too big a job, I offered it to the engineers for cash, they turned it down as apart from the Chief were all indian and dont think they could weld. Very good at bookwork though I should imagine. Another master I sailed with in the same company had been on the ship for 7 years had been off once for a couple of weeks during that time, he came from Gateshead so had something in common with him. He did all the Drydocks himself no supers, all arranged cashwise through him we are talking real big money now, he had property in Malta and God knows where else, I hope he lived long enough to enjoy his retirement. Some people in the past have made a very high standard of accumulating wealth, unfortuanetly I never did, so would as I say like a second time go at it. What incensed me was the likes of the tightness of the owners when they even had a ship crossing the Date line and arguing about paying a Sunday at Sea, if crossing on the right day so they thought they didnt have to pay, going the other way and having to pay two sundays at sea was way out of any chance of getting. Cheers JS

[Colin Wood]

When I was at sea in the 50's & 60's the qualifications for a chief steward was to be as idle as possible and make as much money as possible from hand outs from shipstores provider. Had a fabulous few days meat in Adelaide when the delivery chap dropped off a pubs meat on our ship and our meat to the pub. Publican not happy and meat could not be relanded due to quarantine regulations. I don't remember any of the chief stewards I signed on as 2nd. Mate or Master as having any written qualifications, only references from Masters whose palms they had greased.

[John Arton]

JS re #51
In the mid-late 70's one Captain I sailed with had a brother who was quite high up in the Inland Revenue. His brother had told him that the revenue had formed a hit squad to look into seamen's tax affairs as they reckoned we were all getting back handers from chandlers, dry dockings etc. At this time most of us, would have been on P.A.Y.E.
There was one Captain in C.P. who got a tax bill for thousands as he had recently completed a dry dock and storing in Singapore and the tax man had arbitrarily calculated that he had received thousands of pounds back hander from the dry dock company and the revenue were demanding their share of it. To prove he had not received anything he actually had to get the Accounts department in C.P. to show that the company had settled all the bills. The Revenue actually had copies of all the chandlers invoices with the captains signature on them along with the dry docks work sheets where his signature appeared on work that had been signed off as being completed.
This incident caused a few other Captains in C.P. hearts to flutter as there was one or two of them who were renowned fiddlers, one even having the knick name of 10% D****, who got his name by demanding 10% from any chandler for any supplies they supplied to his ship, even though by that time all bills were settled by head office, where ever the stores had been received in the world.
One Captains famous fiddle came on a container ship that C.P. took over, one that someone else on this site had sailed on. The furniture in the Officers bar was a bit tired and so this Captain persuaded C.P. to get new furniture, saying that he had a contact in the furniture trade and could get a great price. The Company gave him a couple of grand in cash and told him to go ahead and order the new furniture. This furniture duly arrived on a lorry next call Felixstowe but it looked like it was all second hand. On questioning the driver about this he said he had picked up the brand new stuff from the warehouse, delivered it to an address in an Edinburgh suburb and picked up this load of furniture from that address!!! So this Captain got some nice brand new sofas and chairs for his house and sent his old ones down to the ship, no doubt pocketing a tidy sum in the process.
As Master I used to pay cash for the bond and there was always a 10% discount but I always applied that to the bond prices and used to cover any breakages myself. I guess that in the days of large crews there were plenty of opportunities for Masters and Chief Stewards to make some cash out of the stores but if it resulted in poor feeding or out of date supplies been given, they had to not only live with their conscience but a disgruntled crew. Engineers selling scrap, waste oil and empty oil drums always used to put the money in the kitty to buy games, musical instrument's etc. for the lads as did any cash received from the sale of old mooring ropes etc. In my mind it was always better to plough the money back into the ship for the crews welfare rather than pocket it myself as the amounts I received over the years certainly would not have given me a millionaire life style, not even comfortable one. Far better to use any money received to better the ships welfare and keep all on board happy than to be known as a "robbing git" who took it all for himself.
rgds
JA

[j.sabourn]

I was mate on the Temple Hall for 4 months in 1976. A few on this site may well have served on this vessel as well. She had been under the Australian flag for a number of years on the phosphate run out of Sydney, and had just come back under the British flag. She was classed as a Self Discharging vessel as had 20 ton grabs fitted to her cranes. There was continuous trouble with same on the electric side of things, wires werent spooling correctly on to drums, the grab opening wires always breaking, I had suspicions at one time that maybe she had been sabotaged somehow in the electrical parts of the cranes. We were in Capetown and had ordered a new wire for one of the cranes it came back and I signed the Bill before looking at which was 700 rands. On opening up the wire found it was the wrong size and too big, so got in touch wth the Chandler via the Ch. Steward. He came down with the correct wire which was only 400 rands. The ch. Steward said just keep the difference 300 rands and change the wire. I refused to do this and insisted on a new receipt and the old one destroyed. So easy to cheat and make money in a lot of cases if so inclined. The more I talk about the past the more I think I would not be so honest if had a second go at. Cheers John S.

[Ivan Cloherty]

. There are very few honest people and this goes all the way in shipping and all those associated with it, be it Chandlers, Customs officers, Stevedores, etc. actually the most honest would be the seamen themselves. Cheers John S

I would like to think I was one of the 'few' John when I was on both sides of the fence. Yes there are opportunities to make 'side money' in all aspects of shipping, but alas never did it, like you I would like a second bite of the cherry and with hindsight perhaps my way of life would have changed, but I doubt it, I like to be in a position where-in I can say 'get stuffed' if anybody accused me of anything fiscally inappropriate knowing it had never happened. I know I wasn't too popular with some senior supt's when I was instructed by the owner to renegotiate suppliers contracts and obtained better discounts which of course affected some of the seniors and directors 'presents'. Some discounts went from 2.5% to 17.5% over a couple of years and with a fleet 20+ ships, the savings were immense, so just shows what the presents must have been worth, never got any thanks from the ship owner either, but as long as I got my agreed salary I couldn't complain. Was I wrong in maintaining my integrity I'll never know, but whether I go up or down when the good lord takes me, I know I'll meet the people who screwed everybody, led the high life and got away with it, because they had the gift of the gab and could cover their tracks, you're either built like that or you're not.

[cappy]

in a book on captain bligh of mutiny fame ....a fair amount of ships stores was delivered to his house ....before the bounty sailed ....great seaman he mayhave been but a true martinet ...years later as the governer of oz he had a mutiny there as well but it appeared he had big friends in the admiralty.......as fortaking things from a ship iether by way of fraud thro chandlers etc dont thik i was ever on a ship were piant or stores of any kind were not grabbed with both hands by mostly anyone who got the chance....going to sea in the 50s and 60s i can honestly say i was better fed than anyone i knew would have been ashore.......we moaned and groaned .....it was our right .....but meat every day .....eggs every day big duffs on sunday ........no doubt some will talk about bad feeders ....i have moaned my self ....but many days in my childhood we just had soup at home ......but at sea we had soup to start with ......a thome i many times only got egg on a sunday and often one was cut in half between my brothe r and me....not many men like ivan who given the chance never took a back hander.......i certainly took anything offered....and was niether proud of it or ashamed........on one ship as 2nd stewardi noticed what should have been 400 ponds of butter was only 400 half pounds i saw the chief steward .....i got some fine wool blankets and cotton sheets ......nobody went short on butter there was plenty for all ......the loss on these items were built in by the shipowners who were the truelosers .....i admit it was wrong but only an honest man would admit to it and if challenged would have done so....never saw anyone go hungary ever .....on the other hand when dishing out .....the wack....gave much more than ever needed ....again the loser was the shipowner.........regards cappy an honest rogue

[j.sabourn]

#55... Ivan with age comes release from lots of things such as confidentiality. There is no way in the world one would be so open as this and still hope to be employed. However at almost 78 years of age there is nothing they can do apart from wishing you would shut up, or wait until some other thieving basket had made his retirerement fund. I moved around all my time at sea and liked to think I was sacking the shipowner rather than the other way round, gave me a false sense of being my own man. However always had my employers best interest at heart, which were not always reciprocated. I have lost money rather than made it at the drop of a hat, sometimes my own fault more often a matter of principle. Looking back in retrospect we must have had an interesting life, if you can forget the long months spent at sea in a lot of cases. People on here quote now woman on as crew members, have only sailed on one ship with a female 2nd Mate who finished up as a personel officer with Marks and spencers, also with passenger stewardesses, however I cant imagine nowadays having female seafarers doing the jobs seamen got years ago, for a start they would not have had the physical strength, and ships were not built to accomodate the female of the species. I didnt even like to see wives at sea, as there was always trouble. So dont want to get involved in discussions about the same. As Brian ( Kong) and others say we had the best of it, although there was also a lot of bad went with the good at the time. It is a whole new ball game now, whether to the good or not will have to wait, although we are already prejudiced I suppose. Cheers John S

[happy daze john in oz]

Rob, #49 from my recolections of UCL there was a constand war between the second steward, tourist head waiter and the Head chef. For some reason the first class head waiter never was affected. Getting anything 'additional' from the second was like pulling teeth. I sailed with half a dozen of the in my time with UCL and they were all the same. I know as officers steward we had one hell of a fight to get anything extra for them, most objected to us taking food to their quarters saying they were provided for in the dinning saloon. But I do recall Joe Murphy, senior second engineer having a first class blue with Cheif steward Cooper Brown about it. After that I had no problems getting extra for Joe.

- - - Updated - - -

That was meant to be in favour of what Marian said John. probably wasnt put down too well. A woman does see things more clearly than a man, my wife is always telling me this. They are able to do multiple exercises in their mind at the same time whereas a man cant. I was trying to agree with what she said. No bad intentions or innuendo were meant. Marian this was not meant to be deragotary to your post but to amplfy it, apologys if it appeared otherwise. JS

Hey John, no offence meant mate, just abit of friendly banter.

[Gordon Turnbull]

Colin, I think that is a shocking generalisation and also a shocking accusation. I sailed with more captains, so called men of integrity who thought it was ok to sell brand new ropes and wires than I ever did Chief Stewards who robbed the men of proper food. The same captains who could be found with a vodka in their hand at 7 o'clock in the morning. Then again, maybe I sailed with a company who treated their staff properly and not with the disdain that you obviously have.

[John Callon]

Totally agree with you Gordon. The author of post #52 should be ashamed that he has made accusations of that nature.
Regards
John