Travel times: London to Amsterdam

[Trader]

Alec, I always stand to be corrected, so my apologies to John

I wasn't trying to correct you Ivan but just pointing out the tonnage of a couple of coasters that I sailed in. Vernon, for some reason, edited the quote that I put up making my post meaningless.

Alec.

[Roger Dyer]

Although I have enjoyed the interesting and informative postings of both John Arton and Ivan on this thread, I find I must disagree with them about two points they raise. Although seemingly of minor significance, the correction of the points raised may be of some benefit to Samantha if, when writing her novel, she would prefer to reference that which was factual at that time.

Firstly, John, in your otherwise excellent post (#10) you spoke of engaging the automatic pilot once clear of Tilbury. Well, I must tell you now that in all the coasters and short-sea traders on which I sailed during 1959 - 1966 there would have been a man on the wheel all the way from London to Amsterdam (not the same man I hasten to add).

Secondly, Ivan ( ye with whom I'm loathe to disagree ). Having read your comment in # 20, I find I must agree with our friend,Alec (Trader). During the summer of '61 I was an A.B. on G.S.N.C's 'Mavis' 381 GRT which was engaged on the run from London to Cologne ( many miles up the River Rhine). Her crew consisted of the Master, 1 Mate, 2 Engineers, 1 Fireman, 1 Cook, a Bosun and 3 A.B.'s. The watch system applied was 5 and 5 ( that meant five hours on duty and five hours off, Samantha). Later, during the Autumn of '64, I was on a coaster owned by a one-ship Liverpool Company ( the name of which I no longer remember). The 'Mertola' 497 GRT traded anywhere around the coast of Britain and to ports on the near Continent. Her crew consisted of a Master and 1 Mate (an elderly man from Hull named Crowther, who had formerly been a Ship's Captain), 2 Engineers, the Cook, a Bosun, 3 A.B.'s and a boy. The watches were 4 and 4.
Ivan, the comments of Alec and I are contrary to your understanding that back in the 50's - 70's a limit of 200 tons applied to vessels able to operate with just a Master and 1 Mate, however, it was a long time ago and we forgive you.
Be that as it may, your post does raise an interesting point, what was the limit under which the minimal manning of 'Bridge Officers' applied ? Perhaps, one of our learned members (or internet ferrets) could provide the answer?

.................Roger

[j.sabourn]

This is not the ferret speaking as don't have the computer efficiency of some of you blokes. Home Trade Limits and I may be wrong, but as regards a foreign going vessel returning to Europe, the crew could be retained if outside the limits of between the Brest and the Elbe. Saw many a controversy over this especially when ship had been out for 8 to 10 months and crew couldn't get off. I always assumed this was home trade limits Brest to the Elbe. Cheers John Sabourn PS and above 60 North

[robpage]

Home Trade limits: Ports between the north bank of the River Eider and the port of Brest inclusive. I had always thought the Elbe , but there is another 5 kilometers . I took that of a government websit today .

[j.sabourn]

Coasters. Ivan is quite correct when he talks about coasters having a much harder time than the average deep sea ship as regards hours of duty. Anyone who has worked on the 2 watch system will know this. Also they are involved all the time in busy shipping lanes. Time in port is limited and was in those days also. What has literally happened when you think about it they have crewed deep sea ships with coastal manning. Some smart assed politician has probably been having a few jars with some smart sea lawyer and come to this conclusion, and that is more or less the situation of today. Countries like the US and Russia have not to my knowledge succumbed to this temptation as regards doing away with their flagged ships not having a national presence on board either. The UK from being the worlds leading maritime nation with the highest levels of competency is no more. Cheers John Sabourn

[j.sabourn]

#45 Thanks Rob knew from my memories of the 50"s. As many an argument about closing the Articles. Saw 1 AB pick up a 28 lb. Maul and smash it down on his foot saying I'm paying off one way or another. Another one stowed away on a ship going to UK. The Shipowner was no ones benevolent society, and regardless of what a lot of people think, still isn't as far as I'm concerned. Every penny was hard earned. Being apprentices the lowest form of animal life it didn't effect us as we were there for 4 years regardless. Campai John Sabourn

[robpage]

From the MCA Website

16.0 Nationality Restrictions

16.1 The Merchant Shipping (Officer Nationality)

Regulations 19954 do not permit foreign nationals (other than Commonwealth citizens, EEA nationals, or a national of a State other than an EEA State which is a member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization) to serve as master of a strategic ship. This is defined as a UK ship of 500 gt or more which is a cruise ship, a product tanker or a ro-ro ship. There are no other nationality restrictions applying to the manning of UK registered ships.

[Ivan Cloherty]

All I can say, is thank god for Rob, don't know how he does it, but always comes up with the relevant rules and regulations no matter what the subject, got it down to an art form,cheers Rob

[robpage]

You start as an engineer and evolve into a boring f-art

I have had a computer to work with ever since 1988 , when the company I worked for employed a lizard to run the computer department , just being set up in the retail division , he TOLD me he would be controlling my departmental computers in the next year , and all he was short of was an enema , so I took an Open University course , and bought a Hyundai PC for £300 and found that in three months he actually needed a bigger enema that I first thought , so a lot of the search tools that I use , were implanted from the pre windows days of DOS 3.1 operating system . The use of symbols in the search bar gives a finer accuracy in the search ,

[j.sabourn]

Whats the next lot of Europeans influxing the UK. Romanians, should be a very good area for recruits for the shipping industry. Rob anything in these rules and regs, about language. Anyone insisting yet on one of the European lingos. being used cant believe the French would stop at GMT Hectopascals and the metric system. Havent yet got the French Channel, but time will tell. Remember in the distant past of some radio program Brain of Britain, whatever happened to it. Cheers John Sabourn PS For GMT read UST JS