Guns on merchant ships

[Lou Barron]

During the war when they put guns on merchant ships it was a variety of guns some that old they were useless the guns we had on the old Gloucester Castle we had a 4.7 gun a ex Japanese 1905 , 3inch also very old and also two twin lewis machine guns ex wwi
Three days before the Germans showed how guns had to be very good the ex navy gunners had gun practice they fired one round and the breach block fell out and the gun was useless mind you it would never have done us any good .
On the D/Bedford we had a more modern 6inch gun plus a lot more modern guns

[j.sabourn]

Lou, wasnt there something in the Rules of Engagement at the time, that any merchant ship that was armed apart from a gun on the poop deck was considered not to come under the cloak of unarmed merchant vessel. I suppose this was the last war where any remains of chivalorous behaviour was discarded by all contestants. As I said in a previous post used to know an ex submariner and he said most attacks by same were made from the surface ballasted well down, or if possible by use of the subs deck gun which was more than a match for any obsolete 6 pounder, range as well as accuracy. Cheers John S

[Lou Barron]

I think there were something in the international ruling about guns that only guns for the defence of merchant ships had to be on the stern of a ship but then I think the American MN had guns on the forecastle brought that out when they came into the war I could be wrong

[Des Taff Jenkins]

Hi Lou.
Just reading a book called Shipmates by Ken-Walford Smith, and he is writing about the Austraian coast during the war, and an old tramp he was on which had a Jap 1914 five inch gun that he says would have probably blown up if fired.
He was also on an American supply transport called the Admiral Halstead, which passed a Jap destroyer in fog and was able to give it a pasting, wiping the Jap's bridge off from five hundred feet before taking off.
Cheers Des

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[Louis the Amigo]

Hi shipmates, Hi Lou, my old mate Laurie was at sea on ships that were armed,{ Convoys }he said something about a boffers gun on the after deck that took a shipmates finger off, in Bone north Africa? but as my mate Laurie is no longer with us I cant get the details he never talked about his time at sea. to his family only to me.On the same note did you have a book issue to you after the war 1944 called With The merchant navy pictures by frank h mason r.i told by charles jarman? is has pictures of ships at sea in convoys Russia and malta a great account of the selfless work you did, and laurie and my dad what heroes' you all were...

[Frederick Lacey]

Hi Des, thought this would be of interest.

http://www.ntlexhibit.nt.gov.au/items/show/1580

Fred.

[DeepSea]

Cargo ship Glensrae, 9,460grt, (Glen Line Ltd) On the 13th March 1944 the Glenstrae having sailed independently from Bombay had been carrying out gunnery practice when an accidental explosion occurred when firing the gun killing one crewmember and one DEMS gunner and the ship was forced to return to Bombay for repairs.

One other defensive measure on some Merchant ships was the Mark III Holman Projector. A crude form of mortar, which propelled a hand grenade using compressed air or steam at low flying attacking enemy aircraft and could reach a height of 600 to 650 feet. It had been successfully used in driving off a German Focke-Wulf Condor aircraft. When practising the use of the Holman Projector, grenades were substituted for potatoes to save ammunition. They were also quite dangerous to the men firing these contraptions when not enough steam pressure was built up and in one incident Middlesbrough Captain Henry Crackles (buried in Middlesbrough’s Linthorpe Road Cemetery) was mortally wounded in such an incident in August 1940.

[Jim Brady]

There was a wine waiter in CPR by the name of Fothergill he was reputed to have sunk a submarine whilst serving on one of the Empresses using a gun on the aft end.
Regards.
Jim.B.
Lou it was your old ship the Duchess Of Bedford that sank a sub in 1942.

[Lou Barron]

As regards to the D/Bedford she a a very lucky ship while I was on her we had a number of air attacks and a couple of sub scares
When we sailed on my first trip with NZ troops from the UK to the Middle East we had a line of Bofor guns on both port and starboard side on the promenade deck but that was the only time we had them as the was to go with the troops in Suez I think the nearest we got hit was in Singapore and in Liverpool

---------- Post added at 09:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 PM ----------

In answer to your question Louis about the book that is the first time I have heard of it regards Lou

[eric fisher]

Hi, On my wartime ships from '42-'45, most had a 4" gun mounted on the Aft deck. Usually a pair of Hotchkiss or Twin Marlins port and star'bd midships using .303 ammo. Some would have a 20mm Oerliken Port and Str'bd either 'midships or on Monkey Island. Two batteries of rockets, I think they were called Pacs or something like that, I forget. One each side of the wheelhouse and originally attached to a length of wire at the end of which was fitted a contact mine supposed to ward off divebombers. (Useless), they were abandoned later I believe.

Also common were Paravanes used to sweep away mines from the bow and sometime AND's (Anti Torpedo Nets).
We carried a number of DEMS gunners (RN or Royal Artlry, sometimes both). They were assisted by M.N. crew if we had some training. Many of us did that training, usually a few days at a local army range, and rewarded with ten Bob for our trouble! With the course and experience with those wonderful DEMS fellows I learned a good deal more about A.A defence.

None of my ships other than a MAC ship I served on had a Bofors gun. They were a quick firing 40 mm weapon and after the war I served in the Royal Artillery for two years, teaching recruits details of the gun, firing and maintenance drill, etc.

I have a picture of a U.S. Victory ship showing a gun platform on the f'csle head but no gun. It also has Paravanes and AND equipment. And two of my ships with like equipment. Cheers, Eric