The Dangers in Convoys

[Lou Barron]

Uboats and raiders was not the only dangers in the wartime convoys .There was the weather ,fog ,snow and the high risk of collisions especially when on a Zig Zag course and some very bad actions taken
It was inone convoy that i was in on the D/Bedford we had left the UK in about a twenty ship troopship convoy as i have mentioned before there were a lot of well knowed ships i think we had four columns along side us with a few cable length away was a free french ship cant think of the name we had been at sea about three days and then the action started one of those long range german reconnaissance planes flew aroundv the convoy i happen to be on watch on the bridge as the bridge boy then all of a sudden gonfire started it was from the French ship and the firing was coming just over our ship you could see the firing just over the bridge .The Captain told the signal man to send a message in a very blunt languagethe plane was miles away .The Captain was a RNR and boy he could sure sound off if he need to

[Tony Wilding]

I know it was tried to send ships singly to Russia, 12 ships i believe, and the loss rate was high , have often wondered if Convoys were the best defence, 40 or 50 Ships close together made a wonderful target, often a U Boat would fire a spread of Torpedoes knowing something would be hit, often hit 2 ships at random, they sometimes surfaced at night in the middle of a convoy,

[j.sabourn]

Know in the early 60"s the Admiralty still worked on the convoy system in the event of another war. Even though one nuclear air burst would wipe out the lot. Those that done the MN Defence course will remember the lectures etc given on ABC warfare ( Atomic, Biological and Chemical) They must have had good reason to do so. I could never fathom out why. Regards John Sabourn

[j.sabourn]

When one thinks about it logically. Before the advent of radar. Ship targets had usually to be found by the luftwaffe, which sent out spotter planes to find. Then had to commit aircraft for the attack, and radio the U-boat packs to the area. When a convoy was spotted the whole shebang could be thrown at the convoy. On the other hand thinking of ships sailing singly on different tracks and a few hundred miles apart, would mean a much harder job and an outlay of machines to find and attempt to destroy. I know it was supposed to be the only way the RN could make some semblance of protection using the convoy system, through the lack of escort vessels. The fast ships like the Queens were never committed to a convoy as far as I know, as were too fast for a Uboat to catch and position itself for an attack, but would have been a sitting duck in a 10 knot convoy. I suppose Uboat attacks were the same as our submariners used, one who told me that 90 percent of all submarine attacks were made from the surface or well ballasted down usually with the conning tower up and fire directors in visual contact. Nowadays such warfare would appear obsolete with the submarine reigning supreme. We have in our military I hope people who spend a lifetime working out the best advantages and such and rely on them to keep us clued in to the best actions to take. At least I hope so. Cheers John Sabourn

[Ivan Cloherty]

John, there will be people on site who are better qualified to speak than I on this subject, I can only speak from what I've researched. It was a system that was instituted in 1917 after 3 years of warfare discovering that lone ships made easier pickings for UBoats as they were never protected. Also Uboats were able to find these ships as even though it was wartime merchant ships (on instructions from Admiralty) never varied their trade routes as they wanted to take advantage of the usual currents prevailing to get goods on scene as quickly as possible. Many in the Admiralty and MN had argued against this policy but to no avail, as their Lordships in the Admiralty had decreed that a convoy system was unworkable, it was only in 1917 that they acquiesed.

U.S.Admiral King had the same mindset in WWII, mainly because he was still living the war of independence and was very Anti British and any system they had instituted. It was only after a year of high losses that he was over ruled by the President that U.S. Shipping got convoy protection by the U.S Coastguard, who were very short of convoy protection ships. Many UK corvettes and armed distance water trawlers were sent over to America to help protect the coastal US convoys, ( a fact not overly publicised by the U.S. Govt,even to this day) the coastal trade being essential to keep the USA working, as the truckers unions even in wartime held many wildcat strikes so goods could not move as they should. Ironic really when you think that most of the U S Coastal traffic was oil tankers moving from the Gulf of Mexico to supply the truckers so that they could operate.

It was a policy during WWII that any ship with a speed of 15 knots plus stood a better chance of survival when not in convoy as they were fast enough to outrun the subs on or below the surface at that time, although of course they still suffered when they perchanced upon the enemy raiders or warships.

[Lou Barron]

There is a lot to say about the convoy system for and against .Isailed in a few convoys but mostly in the faster convoys but that was not say that ships could still be sunk .
i think that you would find it was the slow convoys who got the worst hammering
On the D/Bedford i did sail on own a few times we did get attacked a couple of times but it was through air attack we did get a couple of U boat scares
Air attacks was a big danger for the faster ships The convoy tha the Gloucester Castle was in was a 9knot convoy and i think a couple of ships got sunk by Uboats.
When the Americans came into the they sailed down the USA coast in ships on their own what did the Germans call it a turkey shoot out or something like that

[Tony Wilding]

HI LOU, I believe it was referred to as THE HAPPY TIME ! Regards Tony W.

[Des Taff Jenkins]

Hi Ivan.
You are spot on, It took many losses before the US Admiral King was ordered to form convoys on the US coast. I think one U Boat captain said it was like shooting fish in a barrel.
I hope we never have to see the need for convoys anymore.
Cheers Des
redc.gif

[j.sabourn]

The two types of convoys were dissimilar for the Uboat. Coastal shipping they only had to lie and wait off the coast and knew they would find. Think a lot of attacks on shipping was on the western approaches where ships were herded in to less sea room. Looking at it from a different angle if all available anti submarine vessels had concentrated on this most viable area for attacks, would things have been any different. Their Lordships at the Admiralty must have had to weigh all this up for and against. No doubt the concensus of opinion is that they did the right thing as sufficient ships got through to keep the lifeline open. Cheers John Sabourn

[Tony Wilding]

Check Wikipedia, type in the Second Happy Time, was the German name for the American shooting season, first Happy Time was the Battle of the Atlantic.