National Service in Merchant Navy? Bernard Reed

[Ian Reed]

I have some sketchy recollections, from when I was growing up, of things my father told me about his National Service in the Merchant Navy, particularly his boxing experiences as a light-middleweight. This service would have occurred in the late 1950s or early 1960s.

I remember too a naval uniform he kept in the loft and a Naval Ratings Handbook, but I don't have any more details than that - the years of service, ships he served on, medals he received, and so on.

I have been to the National Archives in Kew and tried to find any records of my father (Bernard William Douglas Reed, born August 1935 in Wandsworth), but to no avail.

So I have two questions:

1/ I am beginning to wonder if I am mistaken about my father saying he was in the Merchant Navy and that it may have been the Royal Navy. Could men do their National Service in the Merchant Navy?

2/ How complete are the records at Kew? I have scoured through catalogues BT 372 and BT 382 without success.

Grateful for any pointers,
Ian Reed

[j.sabourn]

Ian you must be getting the Merchant Service mixed up with the RN. There was no national Service in the MN. If I remember rightly a lot of time served fitters from the shipyards used to come to sea mostly as J.Engs. and were thus exempt from National Service as the MN was a reserved occupation. They however had to do 6 years at sea or otherwise they were liable for call up to do their 2 years in the forces. The govt. of the day also brought out for older persons wishing to acquire a living at sea (mostly ex. servicemen) the rating of DHU ( deck hand uncertificated) These older ratings were paid about 10 bob a month less than an AB which caused a bit of strife on some vessels I sailed on, as these ratings could refuse to go aloft or overside on stages etc. if they were so bloody minded, saying they were unqualified to do so, but were so much better off than Ordinary Seamen who did work aloft or whatever. Maybe your Father served in both Services. Regards John Sabourn.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Ian

From my own recollections, you did not do National Service (NS) in the Merchant Navy (MN). During the NS era if you joined the MN you had to serve until you were 26 years old; (joining at 16 - 18 yrs old) "if" you left the MN when you were 26 then you went on the reserve list until you were 36 years old; so could be called up to serve in any of the armed forces (if required) if a state of war existed between GB and any other state.

I sailed with a lot of people who joined the MN who did nearly 10 years afloat to dodge 2 years in the Army, could never understand them. Going to sea if you do not like it can be a miserable experience if you cannot live with bad weather from which there is no escape. Personally I enjoyed every minute and it would seem that most on this site did also. But each to his own.

From what you said about your father's documents it would appear that he was RN, but there are others on this site better placed to assist than me. If you have the names of any of his ships then others on the site will be able to clarify the situation for you. As you may have perceived we have a lot of expertise on this site and the boys always love to help

Good luck in your endeavours

[Gulliver]

...and I remember at a book fair having a good look at a blue-backed hard-cover copy of The Naval Ratings Handbook,like you say your father had.It was definitely published for RN ratings and was given to them upon induction and commencement of training.Definitely not MN.

As others say,perhaps he was in both the MN and RN.

Best Regards

Gulliver

[Frederick Lacey]

When I was 14 years old I joined the Sea Cadets and had such a great time that all I wanted to do was join the Royal Navy, but with interupted schooling during the war, and 2 failed Eleven Pluses I had no chance with no Qualifications, so enquired about the MN at age of Sixteen and was fortunate to get in applied to Port Line who sent me to Gravesend Dec 1949. I did 10 Years till 1959 and left for personnel reasons
, but the talk at the time was that if you left in that time you did have to do National Service. The last to be called up were 2,049 personnel on the 31st December 1960. Fred.

[Doc Vernon]

Yes indeed when i joined in 58 that was also not to do the National Service in South Africa,as we were then still under the Commonwealth Rulings!
Glad that it was so,as besides not going into the Army then,had a chance of a lifetime to do what i had wanted for many Years!
But still did a sort of National Service when i did mt RAF Stint!
Cheers

[Bill Cameron]

I left school in 1955 tried to join the RN, failed the medical because of my eyesight, but the nice recruiting Chief PO saw how disappointed I was, sent me to the Dundee Pool to see if I could join the MN, they told me to come back when I was 16 which I duly did, and I joined up, I loved the sea, always wanted to go to sea.
As for doing National Service I never thought of joining the MN to escape it, that was just an added bonus to me.
On becoming 18 in '58 quite a few of my so called school mates ended up in Khaki, and cursed me a few times and said words like "Nat Serv dodger", did I give a tinkers cuss......no I was enjoying my self too much.

[Denis O'Shea]

Hi shipmates,
I had to do my NS in 1953 and they put me in the Royal Signals, I ended up doing 18 months in the Suez canal zone, watching those ships transiting the canal gave me the idea that I would like to do that myself when I finished my NS, So I went to the Liverpool college to get my PMG and never looked back. I loved the sea and it will always be in your blood, ONCE A SEAFARER ALWAYS A SEAFARER I have now been retired for many years but it is always with you.
Rgds Denis

[Des Taff Jenkins]

Hi All.
I did ten years at sea, then I applied to emigrate to work on the NZ coast, waiting to ship out I got a job in the ICI in Middlesbrough, I was told to get back to sea or they would put my in the army, got a job on a couple of coasters to be handy, then in April 57 joined the Southern Cross as passenger for NZ. When she arrived in Cape town I got my calling up papers, told them what they could do with them.
Cheers Des

[j.sabourn]

A good friend of mine an ex trawler skipper, told me years ago that he and a couple of other fishermen were called up, instead of putting them in the Navy they were put in one of the Scottish regiments the Black Watch I believe. His 2 years turned out to be 3 and a half. He said they couldn"t accept the type of discipline and on at least one occasion finished up throwing his rifle at the drill sergeant. Anyhow he spent as nearly as much time in the stockade as he did on National Service. Obviously misplaced in the wrong service, or maybe should have gone to sea for 6 years who knows. Regards John Sabourn