What's happend ?

[MartyG]

Hi all,
Just thinking back to the 60's when the British Merchant Navy was huge, ships everywhere,plenty of work, where did they all go? Is there still such a thing as the Merchant Navy now in the uk ? I left before the job share came in came in for engine room and deck. I have lived in Aus for 40 years so a bit out of touch. The ships I see coming into Newcastle NSW lately are mostly asian I haven't seen any Brithish ships here.
MartyG

[happy daze john in oz]

Good question there. I live in outer Melbourne nad regularly go to Port Melbourne. All I ever see there are container ships, all from China or Asia. The only British registered ships I see here now are cruise liners, and though they may fly the Red Duster most are U.S owned.

[Colin Hawken]

John,they might fly the Red Duster but they have foreiign crews. Think how it would be if they flew the Stars and Stripes. They would have to carry American Seamen at American rates of pay.We all know Shipowners don't like spending money.These days unfotunately,the Red Ensign is little more than a flag of convenience.

[Ron B Manderson]

In my mind one of the reasons is Simple.
When Britain was daft enought to join the so called common market, we stopped trading with Aus/new Zeland and the rest of the world.
So MN ships fell foul of the silly laws.
Also India and Pack woke up to the fact that shippng comanies were robbing them silly.
So theyStarted their own M Navy.
Now the problem that may come forward is this .
If the euro falls and the common market goes Tits up we will have to trade with some one.
Shall we trade with our own people in Aus/new Zealand etc.
But how can we we have no ships.
Well that's what I think.
Ron the batcave

[happy daze john in oz]

John,they might fly the Red Duster but they have foreiign crews. Think how it would be if they flew the Stars and Stripes. They would have to carry American Seamen at American rates of pay.We all know Shipowners don't like spending money.These days unfotunately,the Red Ensign is little more than a flag of convenience.

Having been on a number of them I have to agree, though I have found they do employ a lot of English, mainly deck officers and entertainment areas.

[MartyG]

There were thousands of crew, were they made redundant or did it just become harder to get a ship. Or did it just happen over a longer period of time as guys retired and no and replacements made.
Marty
R787147

[Captain Kong]

Some Companies sacked everyone en mass and then said apply again for your job.under different terms.
A close friend who was a Master in BP was told he was finished, redundent. If he wanted his job back he had to apply to an agent in Hong Kong. Reduced pay, no Company Pension, and no leave pay.
He declined and took a shore job in Saigon, or Ho Chi Mihn.
He was killed in his office when the building went up in flames in 2002, I saw the fire on TV in Australia and didnt know it was him until I arrived home and saw his widow.
So he could have been still alive but for the change in BPs contracts.

Other companys` merged with others when containerisation took over.Not as many ships needed, One Container ship could shift more cargo than ten conventional ones.
Tankers became Giants. A 12,000 ton T2 tanker I was on had around 60 crew, a VLCC 300,000 tons I was on had twenty.
So there you have it, the world changed, Shipping changed, Companies changed. Trading patterns changed. Companies like Cunard, P&O and others lost their passenger trade because of the Jumbo Jets, and then became names only, the Names were bought up by companies like Carnival and new ships built for the Cruising trade which is forever expanding. So again new contracts of employment for seafarers from any where they can get cheap.
I have another friend just retired, he was Master of a Tug towing Oil Rigs around the world.
He was in Singapore, his Agent came on board and said " I have a new crew for you, they are the cheapest on the Planet, guess where theyre from?" He went through the obvious, Filipinos, Koreans, Chinese, Zulus, The Agent said, "They are from Nepal in the Himalayas"
My friend said. these guys had never seen a ship before, they had never seen the Sea before, they knew nothing about a ship or what it was supposed to do.
He had to tow a Rig from Singapore to Angola, a long trip.
They Nepalese fellows all lay down on the deck and screamed in terror as the tug rolled, they thought it was an earthquake,they could not understand. He had a lot of language problems and communication with the men.Not their fault, just being exploited by greedy shipowners. After a few weeks he got to Angola and then that was it, he took retirement, he had had enough.

So that is a few reasons why we have no Merchant Navy today.There may be many more.

[DeepSea]

Information I found and used in my book regarding the decline in British Merchant Shipping

The 1950’s unbeknown at the time were probably the beginning of the end of the British registered fleet of the Merchant Navy. Between 1939-1950 the British tramp fleet had reduced by some 600.000grt and dramatically dropped by another 400.000grt between 1950-1952. The valuation of ships decreased dramatically possibly due to the excess amount of Liberty ships built during the war years, which had now entered trade under various foreign countries flags to fight for competition, though to be fair freight rates had continued to be good at the time. The biggest post-war problem caused to British shipping was simply down to high taxation which made it almost impossible for companies such as Ropner’s to set aside funds from their profits to replace new ships for old. Figures revealed show that 40% of British dry cargo & tramp ships in 1954 were actually built before or during the war and would need to be replaced within the next few years. The British Government unlike their competitors abroad offered no help whatsoever to British shipowners with subsidies, loans or tax remissions.

Another real concern for the British shipping industry were the post-war strikes, go slows and walkouts by the likes of the ships dockers, railway workers and miners, causing excessive delays and berthing fees as well as a backlog of shipping awaiting berthing, all losing money by the day. Guy Ropner who at the time was President of the Chamber of Shipping stated in an earlier speech that the Ropner Co. if using North Continental ports to discharge could save around three weeks delays at the cost of £20.000 after just two of their ships had been stuck on the Mersey due to industrial action. The Ropner ships that were involved in the US Gulf Line trade, he added were losing one round trip each a year on the sole basis of British port delays.

[Graham Evans]

Back in the mists of time (1960), The Australia Star arrived in London after 8 months away,with a full cargo of NZ lamb for the Royal Docks. We were informed by the Pilot at Dungeness, we were to anchor off Southend as there was a strike of tally clerks. There were dozens of ships anchored, all the way from Shoeburyness to Gravesend! To make things worse, the nosey parkers came out and sealed up all the fags and booze. Our only communication was the signal station at Southend Pier.No TV of course, read all the books, only Radio Luxemburg for company.Our carefully cultiveted bronzies began to wear off. Eventually we were rationed to 1 ciggy a day!!No beer!!!! Docking bottles unwisely polished off too soon.
Some time in Jan '61, I finally got off. It was fortunate that we had a good crowd, otherwise there would have been a mutiny for sure.This was when I realised British Shipping was doomed, - Companies could never make money if they allowed Communist agitators to decide their ship's movements. Shortly after that, the NUS decided on the same lunatic policies, and the die was cast for the final destruction of the British Merchant Service.All the dockers,tally clerks,crane drivers,boatmen,riggers cast aside by their unions, who were supposed to be looking ater their interests, but actually cynically using them to promote political theories of crackpot russian revolutionaries(so-called). British Seamen - some of the world's best, sacked and replaced by complaisant third world coolies, with the predictable results we see today.What will happen in the next world war? How long does the British Government (so-called, self-styled) think we would last? What will happen when the RN is scrapped?, they are not even allowed to shoot pirates any more - they get tea and toast instead. I'm glad to be old now, when the next shoot out starts, I won't be signing on.!!!

[Louis the Amigo]

Hi Shipmates hi marty G ,Hi Sir Billy,{Deepsea} you are right about the industrial action in the U.K. at that time but it was in most countries except Asia and Africa {poor pay and no health and safety no rights and bad feeders no unions allowed } The wages were very low 4 of them for one british one seamans wage, still the same on many ships today P and O? and many others The greedy ship owners save money every where in them days with no body stopping them how much tax did this country lose??? the ships of many companys were reflagged very little tax to pay if any? how much in backhanders did they give to banana republics and tyrants who put Unskilled workers on many ex british ships many passed they scrap date how many foreign seaman killed at that time? and sometimes no wages for months were payed to them by greedy bent agents many storys in the press ? and there were ships sunk for insurance money? What has happen today? its only ever been about the shipowners massive profit,{ today} they would send every ship to sea without a crew if they could!!! Never forget in the war your wages were stopped as soon as you were sunk our brave lads done they duty for very little in the way of pay as your book recalls? but Sir billy how many ship owners sons were killed at age 14 to 16 at sea???????