Was I a petty officer?

[Rodney Mills]

Do former Brit. Merchant Navy crew have equivalent ranks to the Royal Navy? I remember being told that the ship's cook and the carpenter were equivalent to petty officers and the bosun to a chief petty officer. Also, that a Brit. ship could not sail without a ship's cook with a B.O.T certificate. The silly thing was I had my Ship's Cook ticket, No. 40151 in 1957 (I was 20). The reason I got it was that Union Castle paid you an extra pound a month if you passed the B.O.T. test, which I did. I was told that I was the youngest to ever pass the test.

I was in the passenger kitchen (2nd asst. cook). The ships cook died and I got sent down to be the replacement ship's cook. I was scared to death, because those hairy assed deckies all carried knives, so my mates warned me, and the food better be good. Thus, I was the ship's cook (Athlone Castle) for five days. Then, much to my relief a new ship's cook arrived when we docked in Cape Town, and I scurried back to the safety of the Passenger kitchen.

So, was I the equivalent of a petty officer?

Cheers, Rodney

[Doc Vernon]

RN rank	Deck Department	Engine Room Department	Catering Department

Petty Officer

Boatswain's Mate Carpenter's Mate Chief Quartermaster Hospital Attendant

Donkeyman Pumpman Engineroom Storekeeper Engineroom Winchman First Leading Fireman Leading Hand Diesel Electrical Assistant

Baker Butcher Second Steward Senior Steward Saloon Steward Ship's Cook Officers' Cook First Writer Head Waiter Catering Storekeeper 1st Class

[j.sabourn]

#1. Think if memory correct had to have 3 days seatime to sit chief cooks certificate . The carpenter was the decks senior petty officer , usually in years gone by he was a time served shipwright and qualified in a lot of cases to go to sea as a junior engineer., depending on the decision of the then MOT . There used to be if correctly addressed only one officer on a ship and he was the radio officer who signed on as such. Captain is only or was a complimentary title , and was a military title. And had to have a royal commission to legally use. However like most such laws is shoved under the carpet to suit. A merchant navy Master his correct title ashore is Mr. although he may put in the telephone directory to suit his supposedly attainments in life , but should be Mr. the same as. Everyone else. It’s not so long back that engineers got the title engineer officer , probably by the unions wanting fairness with an already doubtful title of 1 2 3 and 4 deck officers when their title should be mates . There is probably some little correction in the maritime regulations justifying the changes as they stand today. Commodore is a naval rank and is one step away from a Rear Admiral or is it Vice Admiral ?
If I remember on applying for a job with Cable and Wireless in 1968 they called their Masters, Commanders and tried to follow Naval ranks , why ? I have no idea.
Today if someone asks me what I did for a living , I answer I was a seaman, if they want further confirmation I say I was a shipmaster or certificated master mariner .

JS

[happy daze john in oz]

It was given that a ship could sail without a captain as the chief officer could do the task.
But a ships cook could not be done without.
I always thought this was true.
But with some ships cooks you may have done better with cappy and his spud peeler.

[Colin Wood]

A chief officer could only be put on register as Master if he had a masters certificate.If the 3rd. mate did not have a ticket, he had to be paid off and signed on as a supernumerary,as I had to do in Calcutta, and then sail as a mate and master only.
My 2nd. mate was an Anglo Indian, who was very lazy and when signed on as mate, said, I can not run the crew so you will have to do it. Would only do 12 to 4 on cargo watch then when I was relieved he tried to claim short hand money. The uncertified 3rd mate got a very nice bonus.

[Keith Tindell]

I could never understand that a very junior engineer was classed as an officer, i know he would have done his apprenticeship ashore, but the Chippie who was a time served shipwright was classed as PO, along with the Bosun, who had come from the rank as AB usually, but as far as i could see it was all bulls***, a them and us culture, but thankfully that is one culture that has largely died out in a lot of jobs.

[Johnny Kieran]

I tend to think it was the passenger boats that adopted all the pomp. With "officers" at the table, all dressed to the nines. All the cargo boats I was on were crewed by "mates", never called officers, the cargo/passenger boats were the same.
As time has gone by, with me telling my Mrs about the places I visited, we have been on many cruises, but only to places I liked, that was the deal.
On these liners, the mates are all called officers, as with those from down below in the ER.
So it's all just pomp really, and just for making the passengers feel important, nothing else.

[cappy]

I could never understand that a very junior engineer was classed as an officer, i know he would have done his apprenticeship ashore, but the Chippie who was a time served shipwright was classed as PO, along with the Bosun, who had come from the rank as AB usually, but as far as i could see it was all bulls***, a them and us culture, but thankfully that is one culture that has largely died out in a lot of jobs.

Well agree t some point keith ...i mean we had blokes coming from the shipyards as served time as blacksmiths ....mebbe they thought there was lots of horses down below.....shiny new uniforms ......wanted to eat in the mess all the time as in the saloons ..they had two many knives and forks ....they used to go ashore in the friggin uniforms in shields...till they found out what shields folk thought of them .....my belove had a cousin ...he was on the colliers .....down to london every couple of days .....used to come in different members of the families houses ....open the door and chuck his bleedin hat in.......like he was barnacle bill.....one old seafarers wife her man a bosun ......was using her poss tub ......chucked it in the water then put it through the mangle oh happy days.....another was also a sparky ...bobbys job but an so called officer ....jeez my uncle raymond was a telegraphist on motorcycle coming back to dunkirk one of the last to get out a northumberland fusilier ......title .....private...but to me as a person if they were ok guys great .......if they fancied themselves the plate powder always stopped them ....there is good and not so good everywhere.....always a stirrer hanging around ...... to me the officers should be the old man and the mates plus the chief engineer and mebbe second engineer .... oops hubble bubble toil and trouble.......R683532

[j.sabourn]

# 4 That’s only the way the old British ship manning laws read read John. My last 5 years at sea we never carried a cook unless the ships complement was over 13 . Ships over a certain tonnage have to have a certificated master, and only if the mate has a masters certificate can he sail from a port . There used to be dozens of British coasters under the tonnage sailing with uncertificated masters . There may still be so. That doesn’t make them less capable.
By law reading the old manning rules a Skipper ( full) fishing , put fishing gear on the Queen Mary and he could take her away as master. A fishing skipper( full )l read he was competent to take any fishing vessel to sea unrestricted. Before Britain lost all its uk registered ships a lot of the type of ships you were on their masters were. Ex RN. Any commissioned RN officer of the correct naval learning could apply to get a masters or Chief Engineers certificate of Service and use . The only difference was that word Service as against competency. Myself I think there was a massive difference between the two forces , and the only thing in common was the salt water. JS.

[James Curry]

#8 So what about the 3rd or any other engineers who had a second engineers or even a Chief Engineers COC.
We touch of Oil & Water here eh. I was shipyard trained and after finishing my apprentice ship after about a year decided to go away to sea, Bank line gave me a job. Good fun good crowd just the one bell end the 2nd mate. Now there was a lad who thought he was cock of the North.

I remember before my son was born the wife wanted me close to home while she was pregnant . I did a spell on Everards,Averity a product tanker. The skipper had to give me a cheque as payment for money he owed me. The cheque had his name printed as Captain Ian Jenk---. I thought what a plonker.

Titanic.

Just one steward from engineering survived. 244 engine crew , engineers, firemen, trimmers, and greasers who lost their lives during the sinking of. There is a memorial on the Pier Head Liverpool.
Well it certainly was not the fault of the engine crew that sent 1500 souls to a cold and watery grave. Captain Smith was in bed at the time even though he had been fore warned about Ice fields ahead and never reduced speed.