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Thread: DEMS GUNNERS - Confused and seeking clarification

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    Default DEMS GUNNERS - Confused and seeking clarification

    Following a blip in the system this thread failed. At the request of a moderator I am reposting:

    My father in law's wedding cert. says "Gunner RA now on war service". his name does not appear in RA records.
    1. As i understand it there was a "hostilities only" maritime unit where RA gunners were assigned to ships as DEMS gunners (correct me if I am wrong!).
    2. Again as i understand it DEMS gunners signed on as "ships crew".
    3. Did DEMS gunners have CRS10 records? As they do not seem to appear in RA records.

    Any advice how to trace a DEMS gunner from 1940 - 1942 would be very much appreciated!

    Daisy1942 (Hazel)


    As it happens I can also supply comments that had been made prior to the thread failing - thus thanking those who replied and trying to save duplication of effort!

    In response to Doc Vernon's request I am reminding people that almost all of my posts refer to Dad as "Dominic Michael Stringer", however It would appear that at some point in WW2, Dad changed his name! He was born Dominic Cunningham Casey. We are in contact with some of his relatives and we are hoping to persuade them into DNA tests to prove this conclusively!

    I am not discounting the possibility that there may be yet another name I have yet to discover!

    XXXXXXXXXXX

    Doc Vernon said:
    Hello Hazel
    As i understand it if they were Merchant Navy trained as DEMS Gunners then they should have CRS10 Records,however most of the DEMS Gunners were of the Royal Navy HO Ratings. CRS10 Records as i know only are on Merchant Navy Service Records ,?? Could be wrong Possibly there were seperate Service Records for the Period they served as DEMS Gunners .
    Will look into all this and see if anything comes up
    Cheers

    Servicemen from the Royal Artillery (RA) were initially embarked on board merchant vessels as port defence

    https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk...SAAEgKkEPD_BwE

    Above site is a paid Sub one but does have a heck of a lot on the Maritime Regiment Royal Artillery ( Which was the RA ) Hope this may be of help

    https://wartimememoriesproject.com/w...n.php?pid=1554


    Hazel as you have a lot of Posts on this i think can you just please repeat the name we are looking at ,just to refresh my old Brain LOL
    Thank You

    SEAMEN GUNNERS SERVING IN WW2 MERCHANT SHIPS

    Above just of interest perhaps

    Also read this Hazel from our old Member Hugh some really good info as he always gave .
    Cheers

    WW2 Royal Navy Service Record (DEMS) - Are Merchant Ships Served-On Listed? (World War Two) - RootsChat.Com
    Last edited by Doc Vernon; Today at 01:26 AM.
    [IMG]file:///C:/Users/Hazel/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]Senior Member and Friend of this Website

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    XXXXXXXXXX

    Eric Fisher said:
    Hello Hazel, All my wartime ships except one (Danish) had DEMS gunners. They were a mix of R.N. and Royal Artillery Regiment, trained and
    posted to those ships. They were supported by M.N. crews also somewhat trained as I was, and paid 'bout 10 bob! We were assigned certain A.A. machine guns when called on.

    They were a fine shipmates and helped us practice many times as well as man the weapon as necessary, since there were not enough gunners aboard. You would understand how grateful we were for each other. As a result, serving my time in the R.A. in '46-'48, with the Bofors 40mm A.A., I taught new intake swaddies.
    Don't remember any names, many were lost at sea, but my memories are clear and will never forget those years.

    Good Luck and hope you find what you're looking for. Regards, Eric

    XXXXXXXXX

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    Default Re: DEMS GUNNERS - Confused and seeking clarification

    Great Hazel
    Good job you managed to save all that,lets hope we dont get another Glitch!
    Cheers
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    Default Re: DEMS GUNNERS - Confused and seeking clarification

    One of the reasons RA DEMS gunners records are difficult to trace is due to that their service records don't usually name the actual ships they served on. When applying for these type of records you need to specifically aske if there in a copy of his "Maritime Card" DEMS gunners did sign Crew Agreements on Merchant ships as "Deck Hands" during the war, as this was for legal reasons if a ship entered a neutral port and could be seized.
    "Across the seas where the great waves grow, there are no fields for the poppies to grow, but its a place where Seamen sleep, died for their country, for you and for peace" (Billy McGee 2011)

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    Default Re: DEMS GUNNERS - Confused and seeking clarification

    for thos of you who have followed my question to resolve Dominic Cunningham Casey/Dominic Michael Stringer, DNA tests have now proved them to be one and the same person.
    Whilst this is another piece in my jigsaw, and an important one, it still leaves me with these questions:
    How did he get into the Royal Artillery?
    How did he get to Singapore?
    Where was he between the Fall of Singapore and arriving in Trinidad in December 1942?
    When/where did he change his name? (n.b. By January 1943 he was using the name Dominic Michael Stringer)


    Such fun!

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    Default Re: DEMS GUNNERS - Confused and seeking clarification

    Well Hazel
    As usual we go round and round , its a hard task this and think that possibly Billy or Hugh (if he ever gets to read this?) may be able to get to the bottom of all this!
    I feel there must be some Records somewhere that can tell you what you seek, but where ???
    Hoping that you may get some luck in the Future!
    As they say Try Try and Try again!
    Cheers

    I do stand corrected here , but it may be that like those who served on the DSRT ,and also served on other Ships ,that the same may apply to these DEMS Gunners as to wether they too had CRS10 Files??


    Added This is an old reply by Hugh , have you yet tried this ??


    DEMS gunners are quite difficult to research for the reasons you have encountered namely only the RN bases that handled their accounts and training are listed and no mention of service in MN ships. There are two things you can do. The first and easiest is to request a copy of his Pay and Victualing record which will hopefully list the merchant ships he served in. Failing that then you can use Merchant Navy crew agreements but the snag there is that you need to know the name of a ship, preferably at the end of his service. The crew agreement will usually list the name of his previous ship. With a bit of luck you can back track his service using this procedure.

    Ask if they can supply a list of ships from his Pay & Victualing ledger records. Give full details including his official number.

    navysearchpgrc[AT]tnt.co.uk (Replace AT with @)

    Director Naval Personnel,
    TNT Records Management,
    PO Box 7814,
    William Nadin Way,
    SWADLINCOTE,
    Derbyshire,
    DE11 1EG


    Regards
    Hugh


    Also a reply here ?? Was this perhaps for you Hazel???

    Yes, please go back to them try the email address first.
    Pay and Victualing ledgers have been preserved from 1939-1951 and will be the only 'easy' way to obtain the information you require.
    I am not sure whether the data needs to be specifically asked for or not but I do know that a rating's service record does not show merchant ships so there can be no harm done in asking the question of them. Make sure they are aware he was a D.E.M.S. gunner and give his service number.
    Last edited by Doc Vernon; 17th March 2021 at 09:59 PM.
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    Default Re: DEMS GUNNERS - Confused and seeking clarification

    Dominic Michael Stringer (merchant-navy.net)

    In one post Hazel you mention about the CRS10 ??? Do you have that??? If it is a CRS10 it must have a Number with it! Confusing is the Topic of this day! LOL

    As below Hazel can you please give the Reference Number for what you say is his CRS10 just want to check and see ! Thanks

    Your Quote
    There is not
    one on his CRS10 which is the only formal service record I have for him!


    Dominic Michael Stringer (merchant-navy.net)
    This is a transcript of part of his CRS10 etc etc See in above Thread?? Not sure that the Transcript shown is from a CRS10 >> But stand corrected

    As i again look at older Threads etc i see that he was on other Ships, so there should be a normal CRS10 for him, have we looked for a Link yet??


    Below is Link to CRS10 Series that would cover his name as D M Stringer

    Stratta D J to Strivens S M | The National Archives

    Next Link is to cover CRS10 if name listed as D C Casey

    Casey A A to Casperson H O | The National Archives



    At present though we are stuck in a rut as the Archives are in Suspension till futher notice!

    Reading room services suspended until further notice - The National Archives






    Last edited by Doc Vernon; 17th March 2021 at 11:44 PM.
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    Default Re: DEMS GUNNERS - Confused and seeking clarification

    Hi Doc,

    I have never managed to upload pictures to this site. I have emailed you a photograph of the "CRS10" that the Registrar General of Shipping and seamen Cardiff gave us. The box where the discharge number should be is quite definitely blank.

    Hazel
    (Daisy 1942)
    Last edited by Hazel Stringer; 31st March 2021 at 11:30 AM.

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    Default Re: DEMS GUNNERS - Confused and seeking clarification

    Hello Hazel
    Email received and will look at it in depth later!
    Just at a glance though it says CRS10 as far as i can see, but looks different than most i have seen ?
    Cheers
    Last edited by Doc Vernon; 31st March 2021 at 08:08 PM.
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    Default Re: DEMS GUNNERS - Confused and seeking clarification

    Apparently, time was of the essence. Many were given last minute orders
    and somehow got travel warrants signed but little else.

    K.

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    Default Re: DEMS GUNNERS - Confused and seeking clarification

    Dad in US uniform.jpg






    Hazel as there has been so much on your Dad thus far, have we (You) looked at applying for his Full Record from the US Department ??
    Just a thought
    Cheers

    correspondence_request.pdf (uscg.mil) Fill in and Submit Electronically!
    Last edited by Doc Vernon; 31st March 2021 at 09:59 PM.
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