A Career For My Son?

[Craig Smith]

Good morning all. I am a newcomer to the site and would like some honest advice please. My youngest son (18 in June) has decided to follow in the footsteps of his cousin and is considering a career at sea on a cruise ship. Unfortunately, our son didn't achieve good grades in his AS exams (4 D's). He also has a set of fairly average GCSE's. This is due to lack of commitment when it comes to studying. On a day to day basis, he is an incredibly bright lad. As I understand it, there are only 2 companies for him to apply to for a career at sea. Does anyone know how many places are on offer for each intake and how may applicants there are for these places? Ultimately, I am try to get a feel of his chances of getting a job in the Merchant Navy. Thanks in anticipation. Craig Smith

[John Pruden]

GRAIG it must depend on what department he choses on cruise ships there are many departments from cleaners to captains and as you have stated lack of commitment ?? in every department if you are not committed then don't go anywhere near a ship as one department is as committed as another its not the type of job if you don't like it you sit in a cabin you work weather you like it or not so if he is not sure don't do it..jp

[John Arton]

Craig
As you live in Lancashire I suggest you start by looking at Fleetwood's Nautical College website or the Sir John Moores University website {Liverpool}
All the Nautical Colleges in the U.K. have their own websites which will give you al the information you need for your son's proposed career and they all have open days that you can go along too and meet with companies that are recruiting. As your son went as far as AS levels I would hazard a guess that he has the necessary educational requirements for a sea career.
Unfortunately these days there are very few true British ship owners left but there are a fair amount of ship management companies who take on and train young people in there chosen career. Some that spring to mind are Maersk, Northern Marine, Viking, Trinity House, RFA, Bibbys, P and G Tankers.
A search for "Careers at sea" on google will also come up with lots of information.
As regards passenger ships, can I ask why he feels the need to have a career on passenger ships only? The companies mentioned above have the whole range of ship types, including supply vessels for the oil industry.
I am assuming your son wants a career in either the deck or engine department but many of the Nautical Colleges also run Catering Courses where he could obtain catering qualifications required for a sea career, if that is his wish.
My youngest daughter is a chef in one of Jamie Olivers restaurants and he is opening restaurants on P and O ships next year so she has applied for a post with Jamie Olivers to sail on those cruise ships. This is starting in the new year so I'm looking forward to getting a discounted cruise should she be successful.
rgds
JA

[Craig Smith]

Thanks everyone for such a rapid response. Since my posting, we have a had a further discussion. It would appear that our son has his mind set on navigation on a passenger ship. If anyone can offer any words of wisdom both positive and negative, it would be greatly appreciated. Craig

[Captain Kong]

you just dont become a Navigator on a passenger ship.
Seamanship experience comes first. ask any member who was a Cadet or Apprentice, for four years or so or someone like me, 20 years as a Seaman before going to Fleetwood College.
Then you study for your Navigation Certificates,
What has he been doing since leaving school??
It is Not an easy life unless you are dedicated to becoming a Seafarer,
Does he think being on a passneger ship is easier than on a Rig Supply boat.??
Looks good, poncing about on the wing of the Bridge, in white shorts and shirt, looking at the ladies on the prom deck below. Life at sea is definately Not like that.
Last year I was with a lad from Preston, first trip. on the Statendam, Holland America Cruise ship.
He went to a Careers show and Trinity House gave him a chance, he went to Warsash College for two months and then he flew out with me to San Diego to join Holland America.
So he should have the right attitude and determination and get experience. They do not need Navigators who are not good Seamen as well.
Good luck to him.
Brian

[Craig Smith]

Thanks Brian, John & John. Its early days and I am clueless! Your input is greatly appreciated. Regards Craig.

[John Arton]

Craig
As others have said, to become a navigation officer he has to serve a cadetship and after spending some months in college and time at sea he will then sit his first exam to obtain what is called his "Officer of the watch" certificate. This is set and taken in the college that his employers have sent him too. He then has to take an oral examination before a Marine and Coastguard Agency examiner. The MCA website will show him the actual route to be taken in order to become a "Deck Officer of the Watch". During his college time he will learn basic seamanship {rope and wire splicing, rigging stages etc.} along with gaining a Lifeboatmans certificate, Personal Safety and Survival Certificate.
This days the MCA have updated their Certificate standards in order that they can be classed as a "Foundation Degree" so should he obtain a position it will most likely that he would be put into the Foundation Degree course, but that would depend on his employer as it is their choice as to whether they send their cadets on foundation degree courses or whether they choose the more normal phase 1,2,3,4 route.
Passenger ships look glamorous but the reality is slightly different. They may visit some very nice tourist spots but if he thinks he is going to be able to swan around this ports on sight seeing trips then he is sorely mistaken. Just because his ship is in port means nothing as I doubt that they break the usual 4 on 8 off watch keeping routine and there is a myriad of tasks to be undertaken by all departments whilst the ship is in port, many of which could mean it is necessary for him to do work outside of his normal watch hours. The normal working hours for all Officers on board is 12 hours per day and possibly even more, despite there being work/rest hours regulations and this is 7 days a week for however long his contract is.
Todays modern navigators tend to be operators rather than navigators as they have a plethora of electronic aids to assist them in their duties. Regretfully a large number of them forget that these are just "aids to navigation" and fail to do the most basic of navigational tasks such as looking out of the bridge windows.
If he is hell bent on a passenger ship career then good for him but again he must be made aware that it will certainly not be a career spent swanning around in a uniform, pressing buttons on the bridge equipment and then having drinkie poos with all those luscious young ladies who have spent their days lounging by the swimming pool in skimpy bikinis and he most likely will not be able to spend much, if any, time visiting those exotic ports of call that the cruise ships visit, most of which are certainly not as exotic as the ports that most of us visited during our time at sea. They will most likely be tourist traps that if he is fortunate enough to get any time ashore means he would only have a few hours to explore before having to return onboard for his next watch. Far better to go easyjet whilst on leave and have days to explore those places.
As regards shipping companies I do know that the RFA {Royal Fleet Auxillary} were advertising for deck cadets a few months ago and they would certainly give him a good grounding in the seamanship and navigational arts along with some decent runs ashore.
Going to sea these days is nothing like it was when many of us started. It is probably one of the most regulated industry going and also an industry where its employees are treated badly by many shore Authorities who restrict seafarers from enjoying any spare time they may have to go ashore in, treating them almost like terrorists with the USA enforced Ship and Port Security legislation.
Having said all the above, please do not let me, or anyone else here, put your son off a seagoing career as it is still, despite all the changes that have occurred, the best career a man or women could choose. What career gives you the opportunity to engage with different cultures, see foreign countries, teach you self reliance and how to work and play with different nationalities and even possibly learn a different language whilst all the time providing you with free accommodation and food whilst actually paying you a decent wage to do all this. Certainly no shore based job. Even after having a sea going career there are innumerable shore jobs that require a marine background so his chosen career could lead him into many different paths as he grows older.
The world will always require seafarers, be it for transporting the 5% of world trade that goes by sea or for the ever growing leisure market. Regretfully the U.K. shipping has declined over the years to such an extent that it is a shadow of its former self due to mismanagement by both the ship owners and governments of the day but having said that there are still ample opportunities out there, he just has to go out there and grab them but first take off those rose tinted glasses he may be wearing. Despite all the modern technology it is still a hard life where long periods away from home working with people who may be of different nationalities to you are your ship mates with long working hours to boot but one which 99% of the guys here would still jump at given the chance, despite what they may say. We are all here Graduates with Honours from that great University of Life and proud to be so and have many and varied skills in addition to the seafarers skills that no shore job will give you.
rgds
JA

[Craig Smith]

Thank you John for taking considerable time to post a very enlightening response. The contributions made by members is highly commendable. Your expertise and honesty has provided us so much information in such a short period of time. Regards Craig

[Nigel Smith]

Much useful information has been given here so I won't repeat what's already been said. However I would say to avoid cruise ships in the early stages of a seagoing career, a few years back I would have said 'General Cargo' would be the place to go, but since this type of ship is long gone I would be looking at tankers ie lpg/crude/chemical where there will be much more 'hands on' experience. There's no short cut to learning seamanship/navigation and I really don't believe this experience can be gained from cruise ships. Good luck.

[Craig Smith]

Thank you Nigel. Its appreciated. I think we are building a clearer picture in a very short space of time. One of my concerns is wether our lad will even get considered without having any previous experience or knowledge. There are obviously lots of keen contenders out there and I would assume the applicants will way out number the positions available. Regards Craig