Help wanted.

[Laurie Ridyard]

Can anybody assist ?

What were the pay rates ( C 10,000 Dry cargo FG )for the following ?

1. 2nd Mate 1975 - 1980

2. 1st Mate 1980 - 1985

3. Master 1985 - 2007

ATB

Laurie.

[j.sabourn]

You want someone with a Shipping federation. Year book where it is all in black and white . I can give a rough idea for earlier years. The maritime year book will give seniority rates , and superior certificate rates not that they were very much different. I doubt that the masters rates will be quoted , only that he was supposed to receive 5 % more than the chief engineer. But that is rubbish as a senior chief engineer was often more than a junior master .This is British flag and BSF. Agreements . Today I doubt if they exist. Outside of BSF. I was mate on ship where the master was on 33 pounds a day the chief on 32 pounds a day and myself as mate on 31 pounds a day. This was 1969. It was negotiable . JWS

[John Arton]

Laurie
Looking at those dates most shipowners had either left the shipping federation and were employing all on company contract rates that may have been above the federation minimum scale.
Rgds
J.A.

[happy daze john in oz]

Which brings me to ask who set the wages scale in the time we were at sea.
Was it by individual companies or was there an overall body who set them?

[j.sabourn]

The BSF composed mainly of the Shipowner with a representation by the maritime unions. Not all company’s were federated. The federation supplied crews to vessels , so unless a company was prepared to supply their own then they joined the federation. I don’t know how deeply the government were involved but involved they were, as the wages quoted were the minimal allowed also the conditions of service. Any arguments on a ship were always referred back to the maritime year book and the conditions stated there . If you decided like me to go FF and the BSF found out the made every attempt to bar you on a federated ship. Hence did not use Seamans discharge book , just taken a paper discharge , With the obvious decline in British Shipping the BSF suddenly fell in love with FF and made out it was a long lost member of the family , you may have remembered a couple of posts I put up enquiring how much redundancy payments these chairborn psuedo sailors received ,there were never any replies , I got 1107 pounds for 33 years. From then on I found by own wages through negotiation if possible. Cheers JS

PS going back once again to offshore agreements , Shipping wise, from the late 1970s there was no stipulation of wages as there was for FG vessels, but In the main they were reasonably well paid in the standard supply boat company’s. They also had union representation. However once again in the shoddy stand by boat side there was absolutely no representation from anybody , unions were not allowed by most Of their owners , it was rare to see a ship inspection , it was the lowest paid seagoing job there was. Some of the Lowestoft company’s in the 1980s were paying as little as 16 pounds a day, with 3 days paid leave at the end of 4 weeks in the North Sea in wintertime . After 3 days you signed on the dole or on another 4 weeks at 16 pound a day , take it or leave it. It’s no good me trying to describe the living conditions as most would not believe it in any case. I put it down to experience and at least I kept my own respect by not being a bum on the dole. JS

[cappy]

The BSF composed mainly of the Shipowner with a representation by the maritime unions., I got 1107 pounds for 33 years. From then on I found by own wages through negotiation if possible. Cheers JS

. It’s no good me trying to describe the living conditions as most would not believe it in any case. I put it down to experience and at least I kept my own respect by not being a bum on the dole. JS

in my business life john i met many many folk ...trading as far as russia and oz.....i have now met you two times along with gwen ....i would say you are the last person in the world to be ....a bum on the dole... or an eternal benefit seeker like so many deadbeats in this world ....you were if anything too steadfast .....but when needed ....you were there ....R683532

[happy daze john in oz]

I know from speaking with crews on Cruise ships that the rate of pay varies between companies, as do the benefits.

Most companies enter into some form of enterprise bargaining with the crew.
Benefits vary, such as when a contract is ended, normally about 9 months, the company will pay for the flight home but if they return must pay their own.
With Princess I am told they pay both ways.
So there is no common system in that part of the industry.

[j.sabourn]

Well that’s an advance on what British seaman were getting in 1988 as I was trying to explain to Lewis my version of dream ships. The seamen in that section of the uncontrolled or very little controlled industry had to pay their own travel expenses to and from Aberdeen or whatever port they were working out of. The BSF had some advantages but if you weren’t registered with them then you had to cough up. The proper companies paid your fares , then Maggie brought it out that if you made 3 or more consecutive trips to the same port , that all your expenses as to travel would be put on your earnings and would be taxable to you. This however did not apply to business men flying back and forwards to Japan and other places , and the excuse was that they were going from their place of business to their place of business ,whereas a seaman was going from his home to his place of business .Have you ever heard so much crap. Even though I voted for Maggie 3 times because there was no one else with any idea how to run a country, she had little regard for seamen or colliers for that matter. Cheers JS
If by perchance you travelled the length of the country and a ship had been delayed , then the shipowner of these floating palaces deigned to put you up at the Missions to Seamen at his expense . Once again some think they would have told the shipowner to stick it, maybe so,they could afford to and the best of luck to them, others couldn’t. JS

[happy daze john in oz]

John, I think you know from your experience and that of many other members that Merchant Seamen were not looked on favorably.
We were just another commodity the nation required to go about it's daily business.
To bring in the goods needed for the nation to survive, just another bunch of workers as far as gov was concerned.
Doubt any ever considered how the nation would have ever survived without them.

[Ivan Cloherty]

John,
Doubt any ever considered how the nation would have ever survived without them.

They still don't!