N.H.S. and E.U. immigrants VS Spanish N.H.S. U.K. emigrants.

[Rodney Mills]

I found this article in a back issue of The Economist, a British magazine which I subscribe to. It states the numbers of E.U. immigrants residing in the U.K. and their impact on the U.K. health system, and compare the results, to that of British ex-pats in Spain and their impact to the Spanish equivalent health service. It also compares what would happen if the U.K. leaves the E.U. or rescinds health benefits , and British retirees loosing Spanish medical coverage, vis a "vis tit for tat," and the unforeseen effects on a future British election.



Cheers, Rodney

Britons in Europe: The balance of ailments | The Economist

[Louis the Amigo]

Hi Shipmates, I know ex pats who lives in Greece , they come for treatment in the U.K for serious health issues? Why because they payed N.H. for years working here, and the treatment is free and much better, much cheaper to come her by plane, and greece is a Member of the E.U. WHY is THIS?

[Captain Kong]

Some other countries around the world have reciprocal agreements with UKs NHS.
Anne had to have several days in Sydney General Hospital in Sydney Australia, No problems, No charges and when she came out they gave her several prescriptions to cover her for our journey through the outback for the next two months.
The hospital said they `have an agreement with UK , They treat Australians there and we treat UK people here.`
BUT at the moment in UK the hospitals are full of foreigners. not just from Europe but from all over the world.
I was in hospital here twice in the last four years. first time the ward of 8 people I was the only Brit.
Last time two years ago I was one of two Brits, the other eight were Afghans. and they made the most disgusting mess in the toilet in the bathroom. It was revolting. I got out of there fast before my treatment was complete.
We treat the world in the UK that is why there are huge waiting lists.
I have been waiting now for Seven weeks for an operation to remove a Malignant Carcinoma. I saw the Surgeon last Friday and he will do his best to do it in another six weeks, if I am still here..
So if the Spanish or europeans are whinging , tough, they should have our problems.
Cheers
Brian.

[John Pruden]

its not as if we turn anybody away in an emergency everyone who needs help we give it willingly . go to any A+E and see how many from the eu come in pissed or stoned looking for a bed for the night and they want to scrap with the staff my daughter is a sister if I knew half what goes on I would have walked the wards with her of a weekend with a lead pipe??jp

[Captain Kong]

I would have joined you John
Brian

[happy daze john in oz]

Like many ex pats here in Oz I paid into the NH when living in UK. If I take a holliday in UK I will be covered for medical services, I paid into the system.
But why for those who have contributed nothing? I am not talking of Commonwealth countries most of which have a reciprocal agreement, but those who are not!
I paid into the system but because I no longer reside in UK only get a part pension, yet some a***wipe from overseas gets all the perks?

[Rodney Mills]

The point the "Economist" was making was not about all people from different lands abusing the N.H.S.. It was about roughly 2.2 million E.U. East European legal residents in the U.K. and their impact (cost) to the U.K. and comparing it to 2 million British retirees who are legal residents in Spain: No one else. Ozzies, mozzies, Afghanis, uncle Tom Cobble (sp?) and all not included. The comparison being that the legal residents from Eastern Europe are in the main, young and healthy and do not constitute a drain on the British health system. The legal British residents are, in the main, retirees and much older...most are in our membership's age and consequently have (a) on going age related illnesses: diabetes, heart, rheumatism, etc. etc. (b) the likelihood of contracting these and other age related illnesses; consequently, the costs are far greater to Spain in this (this only) example.

The second point the article raised, was that should the U.K. disallow reciprocal medical service to these Eastern E.U. countries, or should the U.K. leave the E.U.. Then the "Enquirer" raised the question what is the effect to the British political party that do this, possibly risking the votes of 2 million British retirees, and what would happen when Spain retaliates by disallowing "free" medical services to the British retirees living in Spain. Bearing in mind that if the 2 million British retirees would want to continue living in Spain, they would have to (a) return to the U.K. or pay Spanish doctors, clinics, hospitals, etc. or (b) take out expensive medical insurance with most having pre-existing medical conditions.

It was a point of view that I had never thought of. The impact on "wrinklies" lapping up the sun and wine in Espana and possible loosing their "free" medical coverage.

Please don't shoot the messenger. I follow your posts on the political, cost of living, hospitals, E.U., Scotland in or out because I find and found the subjects interesting. Often confusing at times, as a poster will whinge on one post and praise the same subject on another post, but then that's life.

I do not take a position for or against any of the fore-mentioned subjects, though born in England 77 years ago, I have been gone for 57 years. I had many business visits from 1976-85, and many vacation trips to England, Scotland, Wales, and Eire and thoroughly enjoyed them; however, my last visit was in 1993. In no way am I, or was I, as a businessman and later a tourist qualified to pass judgment on your systems. But I'm conjoined at the hip with you all through a love of the sea and our mutual service in "the late British Merchant Navy."

So I ask you, don't read into the article what isn't there, and don't shoot the messenger as I can always cherry-pick and send you "softies and cream puff" pieces, but I doubt if they will peak your interest or help your mind to stay fit.

Cheers, Rodney

"Daring ideas are like chessmen moved forward. They may be beaten, but they may start a winning game."

—Goethe

[happy daze john in oz]

Rodders you have made a very valid point there, similar saituation here in Oz. An aging population requiring a greater slice of the medical pie. Take away the reciprocal agreement with Sapin and many ex pats would spend half of their remaining years flying back and from UK to see the doc, not a good solution.
Maybe a GOOD gov, there must be the chance of one some day, would maybe negotiate some form of special agreement should Uk leave EU.

[John Pruden]

the last time I was in dock{hospital} end of july just after the meet I was taken in to the rhesus unit then on a small 4 bed ward laying there with pipes tubes all the stuff you have blood taken every 6 hours and in the ward 8 security guards the other 3 beds had drunks in all scrapping each other I asked the sister how is it possible to get an accurate reading on the machines I was on when ww3 had Brocken out all the time one eye on the door of the ward because any one of my four sons come in there would have been mayhem so I signed myself out as I got in the house the hospital rang and wanted me back right away as I was or was in the throws of another heart attack they had the results from a blood test they were spot on .on rout in the car bang another one lucky the lad was driving I was out of it my point is if we charged drunks and drug addicts for using the NHS a hell of a lot of beds time and costs would come down ? I don't think votes will be lost by ex pats in the eu the vote should be kept to people living in Britain only because like a few here went from our shores years ago and cant even imagine what it is really like to live here why should the tax payers carry some that will not ever get a job and are sending thousands of pounds home to other lands every month we should leave the Europeans to Europe and go back to the visa system again we worked for a living all our lives and relied on the state in an emergency not as a living... just my view jp

[john sutton]

The point the "Economist" was making was not about all people from different lands abusing the N.H.S.. It was about roughly 2.2 million E.U. East European legal residents in the U.K. and their impact (cost) to the U.K. and comparing it to 2 million British retirees who are legal residents in Spain: No one else. Ozzies, mozzies, Afghanis, uncle Tom Cobble (sp?) and all not included. The comparison being that the legal residents from Eastern Europe are in the main, young and healthy and do not constitute a drain on the British health system. The legal British residents are, in the main, retirees and much older...most are in our membership's age and consequently have (a) on going age related illnesses: diabetes, heart, rheumatism, etc. etc. (b) the likelihood of contracting these and other age related illnesses; consequently, the costs are far greater to Spain in this (this only) example.

The second point the article raised, was that should the U.K. disallow reciprocal medical service to these Eastern E.U. countries, or should the U.K. leave the E.U.. Then the "Enquirer" raised the question what is the effect to the British political party that do this, possibly risking the votes of 2 million British retirees, and what would happen when Spain retaliates by disallowing "free" medical services to the British retirees living in Spain. Bearing in mind that if the 2 million British retirees would want to continue living in Spain, they would have to (a) return to the U.K. or pay Spanish doctors, clinics, hospitals, etc. or (b) take out expensive medical insurance with most having pre-existing medical conditions.

It was a point of view that I had never thought of. The impact on "wrinklies" lapping up the sun and wine in Espana and possible loosing their "free" medical coverage.

Please don't shoot the messenger. I follow your posts on the political, cost of living, hospitals, E.U., Scotland in or out because I find and found the subjects interesting. Often confusing at times, as a poster will whinge on one post and praise the same subject on another post, but then that's life.

I do not take a position for or against any of the fore-mentioned subjects, though born in England 77 years ago, I have been gone for 57 years. I had many business visits from 1976-85, and many vacation trips to England, Scotland, Wales, and Eire and thoroughly enjoyed them; however, my last visit was in 1993. In no way am I, or was I, as a businessman and later a tourist qualified to pass judgment on your systems. But I'm conjoined at the hip with you all through a love of the sea and our mutual service in "the late British Merchant Navy."

So I ask you, don't read into the article what isn't there, and don't shoot the messenger as I can always cherry-pick and send you "softies and cream puff" pieces, but I doubt if they will peak your interest or help your mind to stay fit.

Cheers, Rodney

"Daring ideas are like chessmen moved forward. They may be beaten, but they may start a winning game."

—Goethe

rod
some thoughts regarding your post and brits in spain.
firstly the figure of 2million brits in spain is a fallacy.I think that is closer to 1m.Figure are quoted according to the point that the journalist wants to make.
Second.A large number of brits don't use the Spanish health service as they don't register anywhere.There are many expats over here who think that if they don't tell anyone they wont be taxed on their income and also they can continue to drive brit registered cars without M:O:T,s or road tax and they rely on their UK health card for A&E care,also many of them use UK medical insurance.This is a source of annoyance to Spanish local councils as they get support from central government for everyone registered at the town hall.
Regarding the Spanish health service.Its first rate and they have ideas that are so far ahead of UK .I,m going through a series of tests at present as I suffer with CODP and after about 6 appointments none have been late.My GP is located at a large health centre which has about 20 doctors and also an A&E together with x-ray facilities etc.I am a resident and also pay tax in spain on my income including my uk old age pension.