Photographs ?

[Alex Balfour]

Hi everyone,it has been sometime since my last visit where you were very helpful tracing my Families records etc,
My dad Alexander Balfour served in the Merchant Navy during the war and sadly passed away are 90yrs old some years back.
My Grandfather,Peter Smart Balfour was lost at sea after his ship The Greyscale was torpedoed 1941 off Newfoundland by Uboat 202
And
My Grandfathers brother Richard Balfour was lost at sea whilst on Royal Navy Patrol Service on ASW Trawler The Thuringia on 28th May 1940 about 20 miles off Margate by a German mine.
Apart from the information that you kindly discovered regarding my family, I have no pictures of them during this time albeit two little pictures of my father during his time.
I was born 1958 so never knew what my Grandad Peter or his brother Richard looked like.I have brief description of Richard from an extract but nothing else.
Really what I was wondering was if when they signed up would there have been a photo taken of them at that time ?.

[Doc Vernon]

Hello Alex
While i am not sure on the RN side of things regarding Photo taken during Sign Up (But feel there should have been) Hugh would know better.
I do know that all Merchant Seaman had their Photo taken on sign up , as well as their Fingerprints taken for inclusion on their ID Cards, Their Photo was of course also included in their Discharge Book!
Cheers

I think the name of the Ship given for the one person is incorrect.

Merchant Navy. British

Born	1905		Dundee
Died	3 Nov 1941	(36)

Roster information listed for Peter Smart Balfour

	Ship	Type	Rank / role	Attacked on	Boat
	Gretavale	Steam merchant	Donkeyman	3 Nov 1941 (+)	U-202 (1)

Personal information

Son of Alexander and Ellen Balfour, of Mathil, Fife. His brother Richard Balfour was killed when HMS Thuringia (FY 106) was mined and sunk on 28 May 1940.

Deaths at Sea a paid Sub site has more info, but you may already have this ?

Search Results for British Armed Forces and Overseas Deaths and Burials | findmypast.co.uk

[Alex Balfour]

Hi there, it may be the case that Richard was in the Merchant Navy but seconded to the RNPS ?. Is it possible to find the discharges or who would keep the registers for the sign ups ?.Thanks

[j.sabourn]

Apart from a photo in his dis.A book there would be a written description of him , distinguishing marks, height, complexion, colour of hair , etc. also as stated his fingerprints in his seaman’s ID card. Also his next of kin. JS

[Doc Vernon]

If he or any others were in the Merchant Navy, there should be (But some were destroyed for reasons unknown) at the National Archives Kew.

I have looked for Richard Balfour in the Seamans Pouches but none there, this possibly as he died at Sea. However he should still have a CRS 10 Record also at the NA. Would advise if you could to make a personal visit to them and take a look.
Cheers

This is the Section i have searched so far but as said nothing there!

Search results: Balfour R | The National Archives

[Alex Balfour]

Thank you for the info.My Dad was in that archive A Balfour Methil,would there have been a photo of him in the pouch ?.

[Hugh]

My dad Alexander Balfour served in the Merchant Navy during the war and sadly passed away are 90yrs old some years back.
My Grandfather,Peter Smart Balfour was lost at sea after his ship The Greyscale was torpedoed 1941 off Newfoundland by Uboat 202
My Grandfathers brother Richard Balfour was lost at sea whilst on Royal Navy Patrol Service on ASW Trawler The Thuringia on 28th May 1940 about 20 miles off Margate by a German mine.

Really what I was wondering was if when they signed up would there have been a photo taken of them at that time ?.

Hi Alex,

Your dad may have a photo in his Seaman's Pouch on a CR1 card which should contain an id photo. BT 372/688/110
Peter Smart Balfour has a CR 1 and a CR2 card held in the Fourth Register of Seamen - back at this time CR1 cards didn't have a photo so regretfully there will be none for him from MN sources - the CR2 contains a list of his ships if you require it let me know.
Richard Balfour - lost on THURINGIA - I doubt if there will be a photo for him from RN sources.

Regards
Hugh

[Alex Balfour]

Hi Hugh,many thanks for the information that you have provided..Yes,I would like to access these if at all possible..Thank you

[Hugh]

Hi there, it may be the case that Richard was in the Merchant Navy but seconded to the RNPS ?. Is it possible to find the discharges or who would keep the registers for the sign ups ?.Thanks

If he was born 7.5.1914 - his MN service is held in a CR1 card and a CR2 card which details service from 1935 up until 1939. Sadly no photo as CR1 cards did not carry the photo at that time.
If the correct man it looks like he served with his brother on MANDY HILL in 1935. Can you confirm that dob?

Regards
Hugh

[Alex Balfour]

Hi Hugh,7.5.1914 was Richards d.o.b.Thanks