What are your thoughts?

[Jack Taylor]

Hi all,

I thought that this may be of some interest to people here. I have no doubt that many retired mariners have boats, and will have experience of sailing with those who never went to sea in a professional capacity.

Pleasure craft…how are they regulated? « British Seafarers

What do you think?

Kind regards,
Jack.

[John Arton]

Jack
I would have thought that most of us retired navigators have a very dim view of the abilities of leisure craft owners. Even so called professional yatch men can be an absolute nightmare, try going up the Solent during Cowes week.
Many leisure craft are very poorly equipped with safety and navigational equipment, few carrying life jackets or a GPS (they are dirt cheap compared to the cost of the craft), no charts or navigational systems and most importantly rarely do they have VHF fitted, relying on mobile phones.
Along with your weekend sailors who think that attiring themselves in a pair of deck shoes, trousers, Breton style T shirt and cap, makes them think that not only do they look professional but make them professional.
And please do not get me started on these single handed round the world or Atlantic race competitors in there 20-30 metre yachts. All professional mariners have regulations regarding tickets, work/rest hours, radar and radio tickets and are required by law to keep a lookout at all times, yet these racers think its fine to go zooming around the oceans single handed, not keeping a proper look out and not having sufficient rest to properly manage their craft.
I have been involved in two rescues of these lot and it cost my company huge amounts of cash when we were diverted to the search area in order to rescue them, in addition to the risk that we had to put our ship, cargo and crew too in order to rescue them. Were they grateful? at least on of them later appeared on T.V. complaining not only about his treatment after we had rescued him but also the time taken and method used to rescue him.
So in short my answer would be, anyone who is desirous to own a leisure craft should be made to licence it and him/her self to be competent to operate it along with a minimum standard of equipment and knowledge of the equipment's operating means.
rgds
JA
p.s. I have done some leisure craft sailing with a friend but he had all the gear, registered his yacht and had taken a number of RYA courses, this back in the early 70's.

[Jack Taylor]

Hi John,

I personally find it very bizarre that nobody in government has looked at the issue. I don't believe that it needs to be regulated excessively, but there should be some kind of certificate or training put in place to give a proper understanding of the COLREGS and buoyage in particular.

Jack.

[Captain Kong]

The daughter of a friend of mine Is going to sail around the world next year with her new husband in their new Yacht..
They said it will take them Five years and they will get jobs where ever they land to pay for the trip.
What a wonderful dream,
They have absolutely No Idea what is involved or what it is like where they are going to be headed. Or the political situations in the places where they land. or the weather seasons, Cyclones, Typhoons, Hurricanes, They do not exist, it is always blue water in the tropics.
I despair at their naivety.

When I used to sail; in and out of the Solent with ESSO we always called them Kamikaze Yachtsmen.
"Ooh there's a big tanker, lets bounce off the side of it."
Brian, who will never own a boat.

[Colin Wood]

I totally agree, anyone on the water should be licenced and insured. How do people get ocean going yachts covered by insurance when the insurance company knows they are going to break the law by not keeping a lookout when under weigh. If a commercial owner does not have a crew qualified for type of ship and trade, their insurance is cancelled and if a master has an accident and no lookout is posted he can loose his ticket.
I have been a bit naughty at times. I can tell this story because the people have now passed on. As Assistant HM & Pilot, we carried out exams for the issue of a local permit to operate small craft. A young German couple came in to get there licence to operate a boat. The wife, a very attractive blonde was wearing a micro mini and sat on the end of the desk. They had just bought a 25 foot Tupperware boat with twin 6 cylinder Volvo inboard/outboard engines. The advertised speed of the craft was 35knots. They admitted that they had ever only owned a rowing dinghy before and although very apprehensive for their and everyone else's safety had to give them their licence. I made a point of showing them where the main channel was, and warned them with instant death if I ever caught them anchored there.
Next day I had to bring in a fast freezer ship, and saw them anchored in the channel on my way out and told them to ****** off. On boarding the ship, I immediately rang full ahead and lined them up.
I could see frantic activity on the fore deck of their boat and only found out some years later the anchor had fouled and as it was taking so long to try and cut the rope they through the whole lot overboard.
Later, we became good friends and I actually chartered their boat for some tidal survey work.
Another relief HM I knew told the story of how he was releaving in Albany and had a bloke come to get permission to launch his 40 foot floating pavingstone by crane off of the wharf.. Questioning, he gleaned that the person had never owned a boat or actually operated even a dinghy, and had done no navigation lessons whatsoever and that he intended going round Cape Leewin to Fremantle. Chancing his arm, he told a gory story of how many millions it was going to cost him if he got into trouble and boats or aircraft were needed to rescue him. The bloke said he thought the government would pay all that and he would have to think about it. The next my friend heard, the boat had left town on a truck.

[E.Martin]

I worked in a rigging shop for 36 years met quite a few yachties,I always told them that taking on any sea or ocean,
They were very very brave or very very stupid.

[j.sabourn]

Colin you have obviously been harbour master in some of the small ports in Oz. As was the usual custom in most where there was just the harbour master who was also the pilot, it was the normal practice whether legal or not that after 3 trips in and out, the master was issued with a pilots exemption for that port, which also expired after a certain time if not used. I had one for Port Lincoln and Dampier, when working out of those ports. Working out of Darwin, Sydney, never had, but never used a pilot in Darwin and think more than likely the HM there is still after me for not sitting the written examination required. As for Sydney always had a pilot whether this is local byelaws or not don't know. Without going into the legality of tonnages and pilotages fees etc. Australia was more laid back than Europe. The likes of going into Wyndham I never had the opportunity of having any instruction in going into the port as the HM was over in Broome moving shipping around, I never even knew there was no night navigation in Wyndham at the time, luckily the first trip in was in daylight. On the 3rd or 4th trip out of the port he caught me going back to ship and informed me of the port rules, a bit late as had been in and out in the dark a couple of times, so returned ashore to a more connivial atmosphere. Other ports in Australia I haven't mentioned all seemed well tuned into the navigation side without making any big airs about it. However as your post, about weekend sailors, I don't think you can class them all in the same category and after all a piece of paper doesn't do the job. There are idiots among them, in WA they also have brought in what they call the skippers ticket, not a federal qualification, but a State one where is about 600 dollars to do the course and suppose this is about all they can do to try and educate people. After all our present days ships watch keeping officers step onto the Bridge of a 200,000 ton vessel without ever having the benefit of going to sea. Most small boat people have been doing it for years and are properly adjusted to the same. If the truth was known and acted on those imbeciles who have scant regard for life and limb on the ocean and get themselves in life threatening situations should be left to untangle themselves and not endanger others trying to get them out of a mess they have caused themselves by stupidity in most cases. However that is not the done thing, and don't think that too much can be done about it apart from going the same route as the licence for a motor car, which is about as far as one is going to get. For those not aware and think I am right but if not will no doubt be told, but Australian certification for professional seafarers is for the lower certificates maybe from in some cases a 2 3 4 and 5. Are State issued licences, and only used to get into the Federal certificates with the equivilant of Master Mate and Second Mate F.G. I came down with a 2nd. Engineer on a ship from Singapore to Adelaide where the second engineer had a cert. issued in Darwin this was not compatable to South Australia or anywhere else I was told by the visiting Authority for the port, but by the same token the visiting authority had never been to sea and was a university graduate with the information on a printed sheet to check off. Fings aint wot they used ter be. JS

[j.sabourn]

Addition to previous , don't know about other ports re examination, but for an exemption for a pilot in Darwin was issued with a blank chart and had to put in the jetties, the buoys, the depths alongside at low water etc. Darwin is quite a ,large port and the harbour master wanted you in the office the best part of a full day. Due to the movement of shipping in and out on quick turnarounds this was nigh on impossible, he informed the owners to send me up a day before joining the next ship, they never did, and I wasn't bothered. I still continued in and out pilotless. Was a joke in the finish. Cheers JS

[cappy]

just looking at a voyage card for cragmoor....april 19 1958...struck wharf in adelaide south australia.......old captain roberts wouldnt like that.......remember diver going down to inspect .......he caught me coming back with 2 buckets of beer from i think it was the alkali bar at the top of the quay ......happy days wouldnt call the king me uncle ......regards cappy

[j.sabourn]

Hope he didn't keep you too long lecturing on the evils of drink etc. as the beer would have been getting warm. Or did he do the usual and empty them over the side. He used to feed me with whiskey at 0430 in the morning coming off the 12/4, wasn't as sober as some thought must have seen himself as me, always used to say tell me what it is and I"ll give you another, this was in the days of dry ships. Think I said in previous post, going into Cairns via the Grafton Passage and the Jomard Straits, had to be proper navigators in those days, the only way he would admit it to being hot he took his pants and shirt off, think he kept his trilby on, there he was in all his glory long johns, and trilby hat to greet the pilot on the bridge. Only time I saw him dressed properly in square rig was in UK and owners on board, and one time his wife and daughter and her fiancée in Liverpool was on the Jedmoor, second mate he bawls come with us and show us around the ship, am sure the only part of the ship he knew was from his cabin to the Bridge, his family were in front of us walking down the alleyways, and there he was in his great loud voice expressing his contempt for his future son in law, wouldnt last 5 effing minutes at sea kept on saying, his future son in laws back of neck was scarlet. Wonder if he ever married into the family. Cheers JS