Sunset stirred my memory

[Lewis McColl]

Well I am sure we have all sailed with our fair share of idiots and I suspect most of us lived to tell the tail and no harm done. Next folk will be trying to convince themselves that they never went on watch either on the Bridge or down the pit under the influence of Alcohol. Sorry but that I will never believe, only exception I will make will be those who have never drank Alcohol in there lives

[j.sabourn]

Lewis there was no drink on the ships I was on from 1953 to 1963, so unless you made your own or siphoned it off the compass most people on ships at that time could make claim to that fame. The same once again appears to be the same in a lot of cases. I don’t think anyone is claiming to be a true Boy Scout. Like most things that come to an end the many lose any headway by the actions of a few , and those modern ideas of having bars on ships were never there on the last 30 or so ships I was on. Alcohol was responsible for some cases but not to the extent as claimed by some. But anyhow it was lost on the abuse claim by a few. Cheers JWS.

[cappy]

###never had a bar on any ship i was on.......never had a tab nab even at xmas.....perhaps 3 cans a night saved for a few nights or a tot of rum on sunday thanks to the tommason shipping company ........saw it brewed on a shell tanker ..it left the inside of a galvanised bucket shining like a mirror ...nearly finished a couple of alkis off but to be fair dont think alcohol and ships go together ....then have done it myself ......would only think if jim or lewis were flying and saw the pilot drinking whiskey from the jar .....they perhaps wouldnt be the second to kick off about it....in fact jim would be positivly incandescent methinks ......on the riseley one of stephen suttons ..a 2nd engineer was a plonky one new years eve at sea he was down our end bragging he could do anything he liked in his engineroom ..one lad said ballocks if you can do that go down and turn it up a couple of notches ...off he tottered sure enough she started vibrating like one of them vibrating beds they had in paris and no doubt elsewhere.....the wheelman came of and stated he old man the chief engineer and the 2nd were all on the bridge screaming at each other ......that was in 61....oh happy day...cappy

[Ivan Cloherty]

Next folk will be trying to convince themselves that they never went on watch either on the Bridge or down the pit under the influence of Alcohol. Sorry but that I will never believe,

Well Lewis with hand on heart I can assure you that I never went on the bridge other than in a sober condition, after completing the watch always had a beer or two with my engineering counterpart. I found this to be the normal practice on most of the ships I sailed on, whether or not you believe me is immaterial. Sadly it appears you had a different experience, may be something to do with the different era's we sailed in.

I have sailed with those who took over a watch when they shouldn't and have been in a superior position to me, but I always hung out in the background until I felt they had come- to and awake. Even as a 3/m I have thrown a bucket of water over my relief to wake them up, and even thrown a bucket of water over them in their bunk when over an hour late in relieving me, they never did anything, they knew they were in the wrong.

On one occasion on a relief job and traversing the North Sea at 17 knots the Captain's wife hogged the radar when I needed it, so I went down and told him his wife had taken over command of the vessel, he was up those stairs quicker than a rat up a drainpipe. I expected a bollocking, she never spoke to me again, he asked me to join him on his next ship, which I did, he taught me a lot. I always took my bridge duties seriously

No I am not a teetotaller, nor an angel, and have had my fair share of escapades whilst ashore, am not what one who could be considered a heavy drinker, but I do like a drink

[Jim Brady]

Yes apart from the Pig on the passenger ships never sailed on a ship with a bar,allowance 2 cans a night which I didn't bother with.Although no bar weren't the mates and engineers allowed a case and a bottle of spirits a week,or was it a bottle of spirits a month? I remember on the Salinas they got a bottle on a regular basis,they were not amused as they ended up with I think it was called Spey Royal Scotch which the chf.stwd.bought in Panama so he could use that as issue whilst selling the good stuff down the coast.Yes Cristobel remember carrying many cases aboard which were well wrapped in brown paper so you didn't know what it was.On the tanker that I was on the engineers must've got a good issue the electrician was always pizzed and dangerous I threw a bucket of cold water over him once he was sitting on deck smoking and the lids were open,aviation fuel at that.He had is duck off,the amusing thing was the captain could not leave him out on Christmas day drinks in the captains cabin,what did he do,he only set the captains settee on fire.
Regards.
Jim.B.

[Lewis McColl]

I went away to sea in 1969, every ship I joined had either a hatch just outside the officers smoke room or a bar in the smoke room. If you had 3 standard issue beers you were over the limit so therefore more than likely you were going on watch under the influence of Alcohol. If the master or the C/Eng had a drink on an evening during the 8/12 more than likely they were over the limit and technically they were on watch but had delegated the watch to the 4th Eng or 3rd mate.
I only sailed on two Blue Flu ships they both had Crew bars, ED's if white crew had a crew bar. There is a difference between being under the influence of Alcohol and being hammered.
I sailed with some good chiefs and oldmen. Always during a 6 or 4 month trip the C/Eng & Captain would cover a watch so the lads could have few beers. BBQ's at sea great times good fun. Hardest drinking company I ever sailed with had to be Bibby's by a country mile.
In my years at sea the pecking order for the award for being the pis-head was usually won by the Radio Officer, Chief Steward Chief Eng and the Captain.
I would say that when UMS was introduced alcohol became more of a problem onboard. Personally I did not like UMS as usually you never got a night without getting an alarm. Also the thought of fire was always at the back of your mind.
My latter years at sea the D&A policy was rigidly enforced.

[j.sabourn]

#58... Lewis by 1969 myself personally and others were longer, had been at sea 16 years 5 of them as mate, and 3 of them on foreign flagged ships also as mate, and when necessary for short terms as master. Bars were on British shiips I think by this time, during this the seaman’s strike of 1966 I have no recollection of bars on ships, so some may have and some may not. I saw nothing against bars where everyone got together rather sitting in cabins in little cliques fanning the flames of supposedly faults on the ship. However all have different experiences and different ideas as to law and order, you only have to look at this site to see how it really was. Latterly when legislation was changed as to drink on ships, you got the usual snakes in the grass running to the company officials saying you had gone ashore and visited a pub. I refused to join that clique and carried on as normal. I was asked to report on anyone drinking, which I refused o do, others didn’t, what your morals are in life is up to the iindividuaol, seamen were no different than shore workers in their drinking morals. Only to the fact that they were kept away from alcohol for long periods of time was their only saving grace. Alcoholics abound in all walks of life. The worse characters to sail with I found were the ex ones, who preached to everyone the non virtues of drinking any sort of alcohol.. JWS.. further to previous before drink was legal on ships it was on a the copy of the articles in a prominent position on the ship usually the messroom , it was an offence to bring liquor on a ship without the masters permission. Together with bringing on board unauthorised persons on board
Wives on ships were not approved up until your time of going to sea, this was brought out to try and keep people in the industry. They caused in lots of cases other problems well known by some of us. Times do change sometimes for the worse. Cheers JWS

[Lewis McColl]

After the Exxon Valdez incident the industry had a knee jerk reaction and suddenly we were hammered with the D&A policy.
The Exxon Valdez incident Alcohol was ruled out as having no bearing for the cause of the spill. Blame was put on crew fatigue. So from that we got hours of work legislation, sounds good and something that was long overdue. I was asked by Cardiff University to take part in study covering hours of work . The guidelines were given as to what constituted the working day and beyond. For instance if you were duty engineer on a ums vessel if you got an alarm were it interrupted your sleep be it only a 10 minute trip to engine room you logged a minimum of 1 hour, reason being you do not just go instantly back to sleep, 2 alarms 2 hours etc.

The introduction of hours of work was a good thing but in reality it was always going to be struggle to implement. A lot was because greedy ship owners when possible reduced manning levels.

Slight problem with it was it is unworkable because of commercial pressures.
Each crew member fills in his hours of work and at the end of the month the time sheets are given to the master to be forwarded to the company. Number of times I have had my sheet given back to me and told to alter it because I had infringed the hours of work rules. Let's face it when you are sailing on a load rubbish and have a lot of problems down below and are dead in the water, screw the hours of work let's get her going again. Also cargo work, time of arrival connecting up etc! I can never remember a time on an LNG tanker, be it loading or discharging that you were not going to be bending the rules.

Getting back to Alcohol and ships bars. Before I left BP they removed all the spirits from the bars and as a guideline limited beer consumption to 21 units a week also no beer was to have an alcohol content greater than 4.2%
They started to source beer at 3% or less and to be fair they allowed an increase to 28 units per week, again as a guideline. The master would monitor the bar book on a Saturday morning. There was always some smart arses though who would stick a beer on someone else's page, but they were soon found out. Some Captains would check the bar book randomly and even count the empties. Watch Keepers were not allowed to consume alcohol 2 hours before going on watch.
Also if you were trading into the USA or the Arabian Gulf states the bar was cleared off Alcohol 24 hours before arrival.
As a rule this system worked reasonably well but like all things when an individual reckons these rules do not apply to me it goes tits up.

Most masters I sailed with on the LNG ships were good guys and also knew who to keep an eye on , certainly with senior officers as we were always back to back ,for instance I did just over 4 years on the British Merchant and being the Gas Eng had perhaps a bit more time than others so I would be the one who ran the bar. If I spotted a problem and identified the culprit, usually a word in their ear was enough, if it persisted well word went out and pretty soon it was sorted be it by the master or the head of department.
With the reduction on crew size though has had a big impact on social life on ships, rarely would you see a dart board on a ship these days. I am sure most of us will have been introduced on playing a game of Cribbage or Bridge on an evening. Cribbage competitions used to be something to look forward to, but these days social life revolved around sticking a DVD on in the bar. Very occasionally there might be a race horse night but few and far between.

Yes all you lads had the best years I suspect, my first 25 were not so bad my last 18 years were all about earning and saving as much as possible.
I do smile to myself when I see someone posting on here asking about how can I get away to sea ,it has always been my dream etc. We have had a couple of older guys in there 30's fairly recently, asking about how to get a job at sea, even one 16 year old (spiffing)asking. I would never decry there ambition but if I was to give them advice my advice would be forget it. Job is not worth doing now.

[John Arton]

In both the Canadian Pacific and Shoot Tankers there was a fairly relaxed alcohol policy that depended more on self regulation rather than strict company regulations, All c.p. ships had bars on board, run by a bar committee and although I admit to having sailed with some alcoholics, these were mainly day workers who could still function and do there job, despite being an alcoholic. As Lewis says, fatigue was a bigger problem than alcoholism but companies would use alcohol abuse as an excuse to get rid of personnel. In c.p. they gave you three chances to get yourself dried out then if you failed you were out, same as if you could not make the height/weight ratio set out in the medical standards.
In Stolt I was on their coastal tankers so there were no space for lounges, just newsrooms, though all the deep sea vessels did have bars in their lounges.
The introduction of ISM, brought about at the insistence of the P & I clubs, recognised the importance of fatigue on the watch keepers ability to keep a safe watch, hence the introduction of the work/rest hours regulations. Stolts were very good when that and ISPS came in as we got an extra junior deck watch keeper plus an extra deck rating in order to comply with those regulations, taking crew numbers up to 12 or 13.
As for going on watch under the influence and so not being in complete charge of the vessels safety, the worst example I can recall was when deep sea on a cape sized loaded bulker and this did not involve alcohol at all but the middle watch officer being completely distracted from his watch keeping duties when his lookout came back to the bridge after his smoko to discover the 2nd. Mate and his wife engaged in prolonged congjucal activity on the chart table.
Rgds.
J.A.

[j.sabourn]

Maybe they were just leaning at the same time to grab the chartroom rubber John. Coming from the dark into the light can sometime affect a persons vision and aspects. JWS.