High speed train set

[Ivan Cloherty]

As someone who has worked on Aid projects around the world both as a small cog and an organiser I can assure you that all aid never goes to those it is intended for and many have become rich on the backs of the poor. Also pop stars and celebrities should keep their noses out of things they don't really understand, their misguided good intentions do more harm than good, even though they don't believe it when told, but it does keep their names in lights........aargh!!

[j.sabourn]

To the Entrepreneurs past and present that made the wealth for the maritime nations, why doesn't the likes of Palmer instead of building a replica of the Titanic start building refrigerated ships for the conveyance of beef killed humanely in Australia and exported to different parts of the world. This would open literally thousands of jobs both here and elsewhere, not have to rely on countries like Indonesia and the middle east for live exports, would even please the greenies. There are still business people both here and other parts of the world with the means to do this. What has happened to the thinking of governments, have they forgotten so easily how we have got to where we have. They have come to a complete stop. Should have a broom shank stuck up their rear end. Come on Clive start the wheels in motion, they can all make fun of you at the moment, but he who laughs last laughs longest. You are now in government start to shake things up a bit. Cheers John Sabourn

[happy daze john in oz]

Brian when in Fleetwood , if there are any fishing vessels around ask about these Egyptian French Letters John in Oz is about, also the fish net stockings. Could fill in an exciting weekend if meet the right people. Stay warm.. Cheers John Sabourn

Ooh you are cheeky, but I like it that way

[happy daze john in oz]

To the Entrepreneurs past and present that made the wealth for the maritime nations, why doesn't the likes of Palmer instead of building a replica of the Titanic start building refrigerated ships for the conveyance of beef killed humanely in Australia and exported to different parts of the world. This would open literally thousands of jobs both here and elsewhere, not have to rely on countries like Indonesia and the middle east for live exports, would even please the greenies. There are still business people both here and other parts of the world with the means to do this. What has happened to the thinking of governments, have they forgotten so easily how we have got to where we have. They have come to a complete stop. Should have a broom shank stuck up their rear end. Come on Clive start the wheels in motion, they can all make fun of you at the moment, but he who laughs last laughs longest. You are now in government start to shake things up a bit. Cheers John Sabourn

Whilst I agree with your sentiment John the fact is thta once they get into the 'club' all morality flies out the window and they become captives of the trough.

[happy daze john in oz]

Saw some figures a couple of years ago of how the monies collected are distributed, with some agencies as little as 5% goes to the actual cause, the rest in'ovrheads'.
Remember asa young lad giving pennies each Monday at school for the children in Africa. Few years ago met a Canadian with two black children, one from Pakistan, one from Ghana, so if you pay enough you are a winner.

[j.sabourn]

The Dash... The backhanders as such are considered illegal in most countries in the Western World. However this is a way of life in other countries and is more than likely considered acceptable in others and nothing illegal to them. We all have different laws and ways of morality, for instance it might appear to some that the American form of enforced tipping is immoral, I certainly don't like it. The Gay Mardi Gras quite common now in western society will appear to some as highly immoral especially in front of children, and back in their own countries would be very unacceptable to many. Another reason why different parts of the world are never going to live together as some of the politicians are now finding out. Another fine mess they got us into. People like to live by their own standards and not what other people tell us what is right. There is talk now in progress of bringing back stoning for adultery in Afghanistan. I have no idea why western troops stayed there after Ben Ladin was killed, or even before this when they failed to get him the first time. That part of the world will continue as it has done for the past 2000 years, regime change accomplishes nothing, zilch, zero. Any idiot knows that except those we stupidly put in power. John Sabourn

[j.sabourn]

#34 Clive Palmer is not really in Government, but he is in the right place to make observations. He has no need of money unless he wants to put a paper trail of it around the world. Most people make mock of him but you don't finish up with his wealth by sitting on your butt. Hoping he might surprise some of us. Cheers John Sabourn

[ray-c]

As someone who has worked on Aid projects around the world both as a small cog and an organiser I can assure you that all aid never goes to those it is intended for and many have become rich on the backs of the poor. Also pop stars and celebrities should keep their noses out of things they don't really understand, their misguided good intentions do more harm than good, even though they don't believe it when told, but it does keep their names in lights........aargh!!

Still wondering where all the money went, that Bob Geldof collected, there was never a break down of
were it went, probably his back pocket.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Still wondering where all the money went, that Bob Geldof collected, there was never a break down of
were it went, probably his back pocket.

I don't think Geldof benefited financially, apart from the kudos his honorary knighthood brought him, which also didn't harm his financial prospects or coffers. But he is naive in thinking that some (or a lot) of the funds raised were not diverted for military purchases, but that is only a small part of it. By drawing attention to something that was being quietly resolved in the background he disrupted a well working system that was bringing relief and succour to the majority of the population with further expansion every few months by teams of hard working dedicated people, who faced many difficulties locally, including being shot at, killed, or kidnapped all away from the prying Press and the latter thus able to be resolved fairly cheaply on a local basis without military intervention (whose assistance wasn't always helpful). None of them were living in posh hotels, as none available in Assab or Massawa some of the conditions we endured you wouldn't put a dog in.

The consequences of these celebrities interventions were much more indirect but very damaging, grain/food/fertiliser donations made by UK/EEC/USA were normally discharged at US$2.00 per tonne, an agreement that had been working for years. After the'celebrity ships' had ceased their awareness of the plights and disappeared never to be seen again, the port authorities hiked their discharging rates to US$18/19 per tonne, their logic being that the eyes of the world are now upon you (the State Donors) and you cannot stop sending the aid, unfortunately they didn't have the sense to realise that this $18/19 came out of the same pot that paid for the grain etc, so money that should have been spent on food etc was now being spent on port charges, so naturally less shipments of aid could be made, so the imports dropped dramatically. However this did not bother the elite of the country as they now had a surplus of $15/16 per tonne of imports to spend on arms from the Soviet Union, and as aid was flowing in at 3-4 million tonnes per year, I leave you to do the sums of what was available for arms and was not available for food. Many a time we had ships sitting at anchorage with a total of 90,000 tonnes of aid unable to berth because Soviet ships with arms had priority berthing.

Unfortunately the public are unaware of these scenarios (repeated elsewhere) nor would they believe you, or would hide their heads in the sand aka Mr Geldof. All I would say is either keep your money in your pockets or give it to a UK charity you can trust, if you can find one you can trust, Lifeboats gets mine.

[robpage]

The one that after a lot of soul searching that I trust is Tearfund , As to Band Aid , The Daily Mail reported in 2010

Millions donated by British public to help Ethiopian famine victims 'was used by warlords to buy weapons'
By LUCY BALLINGER
UPDATED: 02:03, 4 March 2010



Millions of pounds raised by Live Aid and Band Aid was spent on weapons, it was claimed last night. Sir Bob Geldof's efforts, including the chart-topping single, Do They Know It's Christmas, and the Live Aid concert at Wembley, raised £40million for those starving in Ethiopia. Other charities raised £23million for the relief effort.Gebremedhin Araya, , handling bundles of money, said: 'I was given clothes to make me look like a ****** merchant.

But although millions of lives were saved by the Western aid that poured into the country, it is now claimed that not all of cash went to the most needy. Of the £63million that flowed into the country in 1985, it is claimed just 5 per cent was spent on famine relief, with the rest going on weapons and attempts to overthrow the government. But last night Sir Bob said there was 'no evidence' of this, and urged people to 'keep on giving'.
The extraordinary claims have been made by former rebels, who told a BBC investigation they posed as merchants in meetings with charity workers to get aid money. Insurgents would dress up and show sacks filled with sand, rather than grain, to ensure they were handed millions of pounds. Christian Aid worker Max Peberdy carried nearly £300,000 in Ethiopian currency across the border from Sudan in 1984 to buy grain from men he believed were Ethiopian farmers.
He counted out bundles of money while representatives of the Relief Society of Tigray (REST) - the humanitarian arm of the rebel party - looked on.

Mr Peberdy said: 'As far as we were concerned and as far as we were told by REST, the people we were dealing with were merchants.' But one merchant he gave cash to claims he was a senior member of the Tigray People's Liberation Front (TPLF). Gebremedhin Araya, who lives in exile in Australia, said: 'I was given clothes to make me look like a ****** merchant. This was a trick. 'They came, I showed them 10,000 quintals of grain. The front side is the grain, the other side is full of sacks of sand.' The money Mr Peberdy gave him was passed on to TPLF leaders, including - it is claimed - Meles Zenawi, who became Ethiopia's prime minister in 1991 after the rebel army overthrew the Marxist government. Former TPLF commander-Aregawi Berhe made the allegations to the BBC's Assignment: Aid for Arms in Ethiopia investigation, which will be broadcast on World Service tonight. Mr Berhe, who lives in exile in Holland, said when the northern province of Tigray was hit by famine in 1985, 'aid money was flowing'. But of the £63million that went through the hands of the TPLF, 95 per cent was allocated either to buy weapons or build the ideological wing of the party, it is claimed.

More than a million people died during the famine He added: 'We were using aid money to buy arms though secondary means. If you come to the Middle East you can buy arms, so we were using some of the money to buy arms.'
His claims seem to be backed up by recently declassified CIA documents which confirm insurgents were 'using the famine and relief efforts for their own purposes'. They said: 'Some funds that insurgent organisations are raising for relief operations, as a result of increased world publicity, are almost certainly being diverted for military purposes.' Last night the Band Aid Trust released a statement which said 'money raised was well spent'. It said: 'It is quite incorrect to say that the bulk of the money was spent on arms or building the party, there is no evidence for this apart from the uncorroborated claims of a disgruntled ex-TPLF fighter who is clearly marginalised from his former colleagues.' It added: 'The public should not think that the money they so generously contributed to one of the poorest countries in the world was misused or given in vain. The public should go on giving.' One million people died in the famine, which was exacerbated by civil war. Shocking images from Ethiopia resulted in more than three million copies of Do They Know It's Christmas selling in just five weeks in late 1984. This led to Live Aid in July 1985, with concerts held simultaneously at Wembley and JFK Stadium in Philadelphia. The event was watched by an estimated 400million viewers in 60 countries.

Charities Save the Children and Christian Aid said they always monitored where aid funds went. Nick Guttmann, director of emergency relief operations at Christian Aid, said: 'Both the rebels and the government were using innocent civilians to further their own political ends. 'But that is not what humanitarian agencies like ourselves were doing. We were there to help the people in the greatest need and did so.'

Hey but Bob got hos knighthood , and how many Geldorf £££££ s are in there , very few I expect so I am left with the question So just how many Ethiopians did Sir Bob let get killed with the bullets the Rebels bought


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