N. Sea Collision

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Originally Posted by Des Taff Jenkins

What if it was the Chief Mate or Second or third mate who left or fell asleep on the bridge? I know the Captain is in charge at all times but it would be hard to say who is responsible until the inquiry. What time of day was it?
Des
I remember the mate on the Stockholm was the starting culprit in that collision, but he did everything by the nook.
Des

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Yes Des,Master always responsible-it's his vessel under his command as you know and as JS confirmed.


It always irritates me that the media phrase their reporting to make the unknowing public ( and maybe they themselves) think that only the Captain cons the vessel absolutely entirely and is always on the wheel,and in this case therefore was to blame. Also irritates me when they say ships 'crash'-No-cars and planes crash.Ships collide.
Also annoying ,in other cases is the use of the term collide when a ship strikes a bridge or a jetty.Such collision with a shore structure is an allision,because a vessel allides with it. At least in my book that is what I have been taught from my early seafaring days.

Which brings me nicely to your typo Des about 'he did everything by the nook'. I wonder what you were thinking,heh,heh !;).Naughty.



Graham

Collided with a vessel at anchor would be more like it. The way it's been described, sounds as though they both collided. If you bump into a lamppost, you collided with a lamppost. I suppose a Masters job is to be in total command of his (or her) crew, ensuring they do their jobs properly? If they don't, it's down to him.

The original rules and regulations to prevent collisions at sea were made to address all vessels when under way Johnny. As said in a previous post a vessel is under way when it is not at anchor , made fast to the shore or aground. The reason why I was asking did anyone know who paid the larger part of the insurance claim in 1962/ between the the Rhuys and the Exmoor as I let go the port anchor on instructions from the master about 2 minutes before the collision. The rules were altered again in the 60s if remember correctly to encompass seaplanes on the water and to bring Korean fishing vessels in line with the rest of the world as regards their signals. They again at a later date had adjustments made to mention deep drafted vessels. What they are today no doubt they have had further additions . At the time of taking my second mates cert.in 1957 you were expected to be able to repeat the 32 rules of prevention of collisions at sea. I got as far as Rule 16 before the examiner stopped me and went on to an entirely different subject. Cheers JS

Hi John
I was never on a ship that was in a collision at sea, for which I am eternally grateful. Came close to one with the biggest ship afloat at the time. I was on the Harperly carrying iron ore from West Africa to Antwerp and was going dead slow in thick fog in the Channel, Could hear this loud blasting of a whistle and then the Queen Mary came racing out of the fog, I think I could have thrown a cricket ball onto her deck, she was going flat out, Glad Captain Smith wasn't in charge. LoL
Des

She must have been one of the few who had the early Radar Des. As the saying used to go among seamen when heard of collisions as such , the first question asked was the collision Radar assisted. Whether one had radar or not it never got a mention in the rule of the road the old one that is , it was never used like it is today , and is still only classed I believe as an aid to navigation. Today you even see the scanner turning in port , whereas years ago one had to have special permission from the master to put on , and the radar log had to be filled in showing how many hours and minutes it was in use. Cheers JS

A question often asked for second mate re rule of the road was “ two fishing vessels crossing ahead one to port and the other to starboard and their bearings aren’t changing” , what do you do. The usual answer was slacken speed and let the case develop. Can you imagine the bridge phone ringing from the engine room and from the old man’s cabin.” What the hell are you doing up there !!! Then the feet pounding on the stairs from the next deck down ? Nothing more disjointed between actual practice and theoretical what you could do. To keep the peace if in the middle of the night I wonder how many did the normal,and maintained speed and took a turn out of her. To heck with the extra burnout . JS

Never on a ship collision when at sea and do not recall seeing one.
But i do recall a ship hitting the dock wall in Las Palmas.
The Windsor castle left a serious dent in both the ship and the quay.
Who was to blame?
Was it the pilot or the man on the wheel.

When questioned later the man on the wheel said he did not fully understand the order from the pilot due to his strong accent when speaking.
Make what you will of that, who was to blame??

The master, unless it was a port under naval control and compulsory pilotage like the Panama Canal where the master signed for the vessel to be under U.S. control for the passage . Many will remember the deck or scrap log when a civilian pilot came on board the usual entry was vessel proceeded on passage to PAMO this was pilots advice masters orders. A Panama Canal pilot brought his own crew with him, usually he would ask for the ships carpenter only to drive the windlass if required. Of course otherwise the ship remained as is with deck and engine watchkeepers. But for that passage the pilot held the reins of the master and was responsible for the vessel and crew in theory to any mishandling of the vessel. JS
That wasn’t a Geordie pilot was it John , I couldn’t even understand my old man at times used to have to ask the wife what’s he Tarkin aboot,, her being from Gateshead . JS
PS on a Panama Canal transit the pilot brought his own helmsman in any case so shouldn’t have had any problems with helm orders anyway. JS

This on the news, Crowley marine praises the ships crew for getting the fire main Deck monitors running to provide boundary cooling.
Rgds
J.A
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c757k1q6yg2o.amp

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Originally Posted by happy daze john in oz

Was it the pilot or the man on the wheel.

When questioned later the man on the wheel said he did not fully understand the order from the pilot due to his strong accent when speaking.
Make what you will of that, who was to blame??

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All I know is when on the wheel and any order was given I would repeat said order for clarity plus get confirmation back. Am sure that this was always done.