Missing Ship El Faro.

[Captain Kong]

When I was involved with the POOL FISHER Disaster in November 1979. the Winchman from the helicopter brought up two lads who survived in 45 Feet High Waves, and went back to pick up three bodies out of the waves, risking his own life to bring them back. So even tho` they were dead they were rescued not abandoned to the sea. The other ten went down with the ship. So some Men are prepared to risk their lives to recover dead men.
Brian

[Ivan Cloherty]

#16 Again hear what you are saying Des, but I doubt that any rescue helicopter is equipped with a sling capable of holding just one person, that seemingly would defeat the object of the exercise (but always stand to be corrected). We were always taught, 'if you can, you do' and having been in personal contact with the floating body then one would assume that it was in a position to be recovered regardless of theoretical/publicity explanations given. I just feel sad at that particular situation that has probably caused a lot of despair in 33 families where-in at least one family may have had some closure, and closure is important.

[Captain Kong]

and all the 28 dead were American Citizens, the other five were Polish. so you would think they would have made the effort. But again regardless of Nationality they should have recovered the body, they have No excuse at all
Brian

[Ivan Cloherty]

Just been looking at the restructured design of the El Faro, not a vessel I would want to sail on. The lifeboats are stowed at the highest point possible on the ship, level with the bridge, yes I know they were in most instances in our day also, but distance from davit to waterline was much less in those days. The boats would have been difficult to board during lifeboat drill tied up in dock and near impossible even in a light swell with the overhanging deck and length of boat fall, the pendulum effect would have been horrendous and it is no wonder the lifeboat was found battered. It would appear that they were purely on board to fulfill a coastguard paper regulation and it would also appear very little thought given to their practicality of use in the event of an accident/incident.

It is also emerging that routeing was planned from the office and no apparent account was factored in that not all tropical storms dissipate in that area and that many do turn into full blown hurricanes, one weather man commenting that the science of predicating an accurate path of an hurricane as not yet evolved, as past experience has shown. The vessel could have taken a longer southern route to avoid inclement weather but that would have interfered with the schedule, as one nautical assessor has put it, there will be a lot of wringing of hands, blame apportionment going back and forwards and at the end of a years investigation, the families will have learnt no more than they know now about who was responsible for steaming into a hurricane area that could have been avoided. Nor will anyone in office management learn anything as they will still be governed by schedules rather than safety of ship, cargo and crew.

[j.sabourn]

All valid points Ivan, also shows the state of Merchant Shipping when run from the shore. It was certainly tried out with me at various times where the owners ashore tried to tell you your job. As in a previous post when didn't have the authority to refuse the loading schedule due to the sheering stresses on the ship, but gave the information to the master, who went ahead and loaded to the owners requirements for a passage from Esperance SW Australia to Durban. Was lucky we did not break in two, any bad weather and would probably not be sitting here now I was on ship for 13 months and was flown home from Durban, on going into the office got the full treatment, and told I was going master when the ship got back to Europe. I listened to all their waffling and then told them the facts of life, and where to stick their ship the whole 37,000 tons of it. A ship has to be run from the ship that has been my outlook on life and evermore will be so. Most ships nowadays carry self inflating liferafts so would of thought this would or should be the first thing to be spotted also the EPIRBS should have gone off, shows that todays shipping is the same as Volks Wagon cutting corners, probably shipping wise because they are being run from the shore, any ship as far as I am concerned once again is run from the ship and evermore shall be so. They are apparently being run from the shore and the masters are letting them. Cheers JS

[Captain Kong]

IF SAFETY COSTS MONEY, THEN FORGET IT.
Brian

[j.sabourn]

Brian as said way back in another post I would like to see a restructured impression of the Court of Enquiry on the loss of the Titanic, people would then see the master of such being thrown to the wolves. He probably had schedules to meet also, but I would think the first charge brought against him would be Speed to be moderate in reduced visibility, for a 20 knot ship, people would say well 15 knots is a moderate speed, and for a 10 knot ship 7 knots was also moderate, when in actual fact you are supposed to be able to take the way off the vessel within your distance of visibility. That was the old regulations regardless of stipulated times of arrival. Although books and movies made of the disaster and old Capt. Smith hailed as a hero going down with his ship, he would of known the alternative if he had lived, there was only himself to carry the can. Also during our time even with radar the same still applied. Nowadays however electronic navigation aids have been accepted as reliable and the whole ball game is different, however it all goes back to manpower, time and money. We will never as often said on this media never see the likes of shipping as it was in our time, let the younger generation have it, they too will find many faults with present legislation, it is their fight now, few that they are. JS

[Ivan Cloherty]

#25 apparently on this ship the EPIRBS was stowed against the aft bulkhead and according to one assessor if the vessel went down stern first (apparently the most common occurence) then it would not have had chance to float free and transmit but would have been held against the bulkhead by water pressure as the ship sank, all theory of course as no one knows, but sounds possible

[j.sabourn]

A ship that size would have had more than 1 EPIRB. There would have been another at least in the Bridge area. more than likely a couple more scattered outside. Even people going walkabout in the bush out here carry smaller versions of them. I thought however and have probably misread as usual that they had lost contact where the ship probably went down. There will always be ships lost for various reasons, it is doubly frustrating when they go down when it could have been avoided with the accompanying loss of life. There will be more sailors familys in mourning for their bread winners. JS

[j.sabourn]

Havent followed the news on this one only what you blokes have put out, as regards the one in the Survival suit though would have been really of use to have recovered the body. These survival suits are advertised as near infallible when it come to keeping the wearer alive. A post mortem would have proved once and for all the validity of this statement if he had on correctly and if he had died with hypothermia. Also if he had on they were apparently expecting trouble as takes time to put on as recently discussed. JS