Gulliver

[j.sabourn]

Gulliver have again titled this gulliver to attract your attention. I have told certain ex shipmates etc. that I would clarify 4 incidents that I think I have mentioned in earlier posts, at least 2 of them I have. On the off chance that you may once again be able to do your magic as an oracle and verify or not, hopefully they may have been reported in Lloyds list.
!. Ships Name Rosewood Owners John I jacobs. Off. No. 341099 Grt 14999.54 NRT 10580.81 Reg. London
I was on this ship at various times over a period of 4 years or so. And was on her on handover to the Greeks in Genoa in August 1975. During one of the trips I was on her there was an occurence whilst I was Ch. Mate where the master was stabbed by a crew member which I think would have been about June 1972. Approx. about !2 months after this occurence, there was a murder on the vessel also an attempted murder. This occurred off the coast of Chile. The Chilean navy put an armed boarding party onboard to arrest the lone gunman. Fortuanetly I was not in attendance at this occurence. I was told later there were 2 trials at the Old Bailey and appropiate sentences handed out. I was not called as a witness to the first trial, so only have a second hand account of it. The second trial I was told the culprit received 2 concurrent life sentences. In the second one the electrician was shot dead.
I am hoping there may be a report in old Lloyds lists you may have.
2. Ship Hazelmoor O.N. 186036 NRT 2814.73 Reg. London. Occurence I beleive about July 1963. Incident. Man overboard. Position outside Cairns FNQ inside Barrier Reef. It has cropped up that one of my acquaintances has quoted a different name for the overboard incident, and would like to know if there were 2 similar occurences about the same time. Apparently there was a book written about this but have never read. I know the name that I recall the other persons name is completely different. 3. Occurence about October 1987. Incident boarding by illegal persons (Pirates) Place at anchor in the McKenzie River off Georgetown Guiana South America. Ships name is one of them I cant remember so on the off chance that it may have been reported to Lloyds. Although more than likely was not reported. Thanks Gulliver taking you at your word and coming to the oracle.. Cheers John Sabourn.

[Doc Vernon]

Is this of any use!
Incident 2
29th Sept 1961

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Capture 1.JPG

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Capture 4.JPG

[Gulliver]

Hi John.as you will see from Vernon's post above-there is more than one 'Oracle' on site !--yet another reason why Vernon should not retire,but just take a part-time consultancy job !
I do have lots of info,usually about individual vessels.,but not so much about individual incidents which occurred on them.That is more difficult because as you said,not all of them are reported,or even deemed to be newsworthy.Also.I suppose crew are often reluctant to talk about an incident.Then.over the years,people's versions of stories become more distorted,and memories more vague..

I actually do not have any Lloyds Lists.As you can imagine a warehouse or two would be required to store them although there are some members on this and other sites who have some,and regularly come up with the goods...

Most of my info about shipboard incidents and accidents are gleaned from websites like this, or online, and from The Times Online Archives,which is now a bit pricey to subscribe to but very useful.

However I'll certainly keep an eye out for info and let you know.
All the Best
Gulliver

[j.sabourn]

Doc thanks very much for that. I was on the hazelmoor in 1961. However I have always thought the name was Tarbutt he was an apprentice, and to my recollection we were coming out of Cairns. and looking back in my book this is correct. The ship paid off in Liverpool 29th. Oct. 1961. Looking back Tarbet does sound like corbett, all these years it has been in my mind that was his surname. Also that we were coming out of Cairns. We could of course been at the 2 ports. That voyage I was doing all the paperwork (just like the previous post on purser Ha ) with being an apprentice they did not sign on so his name would not have been emblazoned on my mind like the crew lists were at the time. I suppose that must be the reason, the only other is that my memory is slowly disappearing.However saying that, that neither is the name that my friend quoted so we will call it 50/50. For your info if it was not in the paper report, I reported him missing at 0200 hrs after the ship being searched and messages sent out we retraced the couse, lowered a lifeboat and searched various reefs. We went back as far as Cairns (maybe this is why Cairns sticks in my mind as was quite often there) At that time there was an unmanned lighted beacon just outside Cairns and i reckon he jumped and swam for. Being dragged off by towing his dungarees was a plausible story at the time and you could believe it or not. However the following trip on another ship he jumped in Oz and the story went half the cutlery went with him. He obviously had a girlfriend. I hope he is alive and well and things turned out ok for him. I know his actions caused a lot of strife at the time. Thanks and sorry to Gulliver who I gave the wrong date once again. Cheers John Sabourn.

[j.sabourn]

Thanks Gulliver. At the time re, Rosewood the daily Express had as a headline I believe "Master stabbed on the High Seas" must have tried to make it Nautical. It actually happened in Dakar on the ship. The culprit was a Ceylonese ( now Sri Lankan) living in Cardiff and married to a nurse. He did go to jail as was extradited to UK . I was talking to one of the detectives much later as had to give a written statement and apparently he tried to claim Ceylonese citizenship and go back there rather than uk. Must be the only time a Sri Lankan has tried to reverse the role of illegal immigrant. I certainly do know this mans name and also know he has been out of jail quite a number of years. I organized a whip round when I left him behind, for his wife. He has done whatever he got and deserves to be left alone so will say no more, also hope he is alive and well. I dont think he got a very long sentence and there might have been extenuating circumstances that I knew nothing about. Cheers John Sabourn

[Gulliver]

Hi John.one of the murders you mention was written about here on this site by in February 2010 by member Derek Brooks;in the thread Worst Christmas at Sea,Post # 34.

"my worst, of five spent at sea, was on the MV Rosewood, 1973. On route fron New Orleans to Valparaiso, via Panama Canal, a Somalii EDH decided he did not like being at sea and went and shot the Bosun, Electrician and the Old Man, just before Christmas. The Bosun survived, a bullet in the neck and one in his gut sadly the Electrican was hit once in the chest and died in his wife's arms. The Old Man didn't get hit at all. We were off Ecuador and called the police and army to come aboard. By this time the Chippy and I had barricaded the EDH in his cabin.He tried to get out his porthole but we had a fire hose on him. As the army, with guns drawn,came aboard to get him he gave himself up. We continued on to Valparaiso where two policemen from the UK joined us and took statements. I had to appear at the Old Bailey as a witness where the EDH was sent down for murder, attempted murder and GBH.As soon as we got the chance, Rotterdam, Feb 1974 we all signed off. Definitely one to remember. "

Derek Brooks R 850826


Thread Location HERE

Vessel details show ROSEWOOD as being a 14,609 grt ( 25,487 dwt) Bulk carrier completed 1/71 at La Spezia for John Jacobs,London.
Sold 1975 renamed PAULINA C. Renamed 84- RIO GRANDE -Renamed 86- NEPTUNIA. 3/12/88-Broken Up Bombay.

Regards
Gulliver

[j.sabourn]

Gulliver thanks once again. No I never saw that post re. Rosewood. When you have one incident on a vessel it seems to carry on like a bad smell. As I said I was talking to a Detective one time about various things and he told me that they had a selection of memoirs in their Murder room in Scotland Yard re. the Rosewood.I was told unofficially that the culprit re the death of the electrician had 3rd. degree syphlis, I dont think this can be described as being derogatory to the man or his family, as am only repeating what I heard. The master at the time I knew very well, so got his version of events as well, which no doubt I was privy to. The person who wrote about the incident I maybe have passed on vessel, as after the first incident, on arrival Rotterdam the ship was cleared out except for the 2nd. engineer and myself probably kept there as were the 2 I suppose of intimate knowledge of the vessel. The crew that joined were from Dock Street. The first night fortuanetly in port I was called out as one of the seamen was reported lying in the alleyway. On being manhandled into his bunk it was discovered he was a diabetic and as had been drinking rather heavily didnt improve matters. As he was in a semi coherent condition I was able to estabilish he had previously tried to kill himself and showed me the scars on his wrists to prove his point. If I remember correctly we paid him off. How he got passed the Federation Doctor I dont know. The Rosewood was one of these ships everything was up and down re accomodation the 6th. Deck being the bridge, outside deck space for relaxing/walking etc. was very limited, and to me the ship had a claustophobic affect on people. As I said I was sent to this vessel at various times. However I was not sad when she was sold to the Greeks. Thanks for your info. will try and find the post you mention. Best Regards John Sabourn

[j.sabourn]

Gulliver/Doc, as a grand final to the Rosewood. We carried a Greek ch. Engineer from South America to Genoa to familiarize himself, we of course called him the Spy. We were told to just give the new owners just the necessary information regarding the working of the ship. As anyone who has been on a handover in such situations will know that all logbooks etc. are the property of the seller and not open for inspection by the buyer, all these things were done. In Genoa the new Greek master came to see me for a chat. Feeling I had an obligation to let him know any idiocracys of the vessel, as you would do to any seafarer who was relieving you. I mentioned when pumping out the floodable hold, that when you came down to the sounding of about a foot, it was better to come off the stripping pump and go onto the bilge pump which was a seperate line. When it came to the handover, the new owners brought this up and managed to get I believe another 50,000 pounds off the purchase price. Of course the owners wanted to know how they learned about this, fortuanetly I kept my mouth shut and the Greek Ch.Eng. was blamed of having found this small idiocracy of the vessel.Thereafter I never divulged any information to any buyers that was not obvious. A very sad set of affairs, and not a very seamanlike way of doing business. Cheers John Sabourn

[Robert George Young]

Dad was on this ship dec 72 - Jan 73

[j.sabourn]

Robert if you are referring to the Rosewood I will get my old dis. Book out. I was mate on the Rosewood about this time and a bloke called Jacotine was the master. Will see if I can recall your father if he was bosun he should be well known to me as would see and talk to him every morning and evening. If you have his book his last discharge would be Genoa in that case. Will get the dates and post when I wake up as is 0700 hrs here. Regards JWS
Robert is only 10 minutes so can edit this post my time on Rosewood was 11.2.72 to 6.6.72, 7.6.72 to 5.7.72,6.6.72 To 5.7.72, 6.5.75 to 8.8.75 in Genoa. Omissions and errors accepted. The time you mention for your father is possible the master was a man called Hort who was stabbed in Dakar. JWS.