Socially Acceptable Living Standard

[happy daze john in oz]

Yes Les I know what you mean. While employed in the uni system we got reduced private cover and my wife had an op, but even with the cover I had to cough up $200 at the door beforte she could go in. Left the uni and dropped out of private cover. Second op in public hospital, no difference in any of it, except i did not have to pay at the door. A lot of how you are treated here in Oz depends on your GP and how much pull he has, but from what i hear it is still light years ahead of UK.

[Neville Roberts]

Hi Rodney ,when I worked in NYC I was in the union and they had medical coverage so Inever thought about it then, but now the wife and I are on medicare like you but we opted for one of the many hmo ,s that they offer it cost nothing and we get the $96 a month back in our pensions ,no copays at th doctors and plenty of choices. also they give us a $50 a month allowance on over the counter stuff in the drug stores . its a crazy system eyeglass coverage and basic dental . and membership in a health club. a mate of mine pays the same as you ,his wife recently died and he got a $80,000 bill from different docs. what a rip off .you have to take advantage of some of the perks they have . but your right that the states are not for everyone . but ,Im still glad we came. when I think back to old Liverpool and remember my yearning for travel .here I am .in Florida .

[Neville Roberts]

Hi Les , you only have coverage if you are in a union here.if you work for a private company you have to ay a monthly premium and the employer matches it the amount depends on what option you choose. single or family . and the insurance company .wich are many . my last one was $40 aweek for me and the missus . wich is a good one , as I had 3 operations under it and only cost $400 per .

[john sutton]

THE TAX SYSTEM EXPLAINED IN BEER

Suppose that once a week, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100.



If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this..

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay £1.
The sixth would pay £3.
The seventh would pay £7.
The eighth would pay £12.
The ninth would pay £18.
And the tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.


So, that's what they decided to do.



The ten men drank in the bar every week and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until, one day, the owner caused them a little problem. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your weekly beer by £20.” Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80.



The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free but what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? They realized that £20 divided by six is £3.33 but if they subtracted that from everybody's share then not only would the first four men still be drinking for free but the fifth and sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.



So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fairer to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage. They decided to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

And so, the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (a 100% saving).
The sixth man now paid £2 instead of £3 (a 33% saving).
The seventh man now paid £5 instead of £7 (a 28% saving).
The eighth man now paid £9 instead of £12 (a 25% saving).
The ninth man now paid £14 instead of £18 (a 22% saving).
And the tenth man now paid £49 instead of £59 (a 16% saving).
Each of the last six was better off than before with the first four continuing to drink for free.



But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got £1 out of the £20 saving," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got £10"



"Yes, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved £1 too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me"



"That's true" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back, when I only got £2? The wealthy get all the breaks"



"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.



The next week the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important - they didn't have enough money between all of them to pay for even half of the bill.



And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy and they just might not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics.
For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible

john sutton

[Red Lead Ted]

Extending your story, We have had them guy,s drinking overseas for year,s so to speak. Nothing new there m8. But the wheels kept spinning in our N.H.S. The problem is it has been raped and plundered by to much administration lets say to many chiefs and not enough indians. And if you are to get a visa to enter a country from any nation make it Britain especially if you are about to give birth or find you have a serious illness N.H.S. Free at the point of entry for all, All none uk citizens should pay for health care in the uk unlike them. We have paid National Insurance and taxes all our working lives. Terry.

[Rodney Mills]

Hi to Les,

Employers currently are NOT forced to provide medical insurance to their employees in the U.S.. Most of the larger companies do however, either as an inducement to retain employees, or if unionized as a negotiated benefit.

In many respects, the U.S.A. is 50 different countries, with different rules and regulations. South Carolina to my knowledge hasn't any unions, other states have many. Union 'shops' have gone from a probable 50% of the workforce down to 25%. Two of my three sons births were covered by my membership in the Culinary Workers Union. State and federal govt employees are provided insurance and naturally, politicians have the best our money can buy. As an aside, Senator John McCain, past republican party candidate for president has skin cancer, this is a pre-existing medical condition. If he was a regular employee and lost his job and couldn't find another with insurance coverage, and 18 months had past, he would have to go out on the open market and seek coverage. Oops! He has a pre-existing condition. If he found an Insurer willing to cover him, he would find his premium very expensive. Senator McCain voted against "Obamacare" which would offer the same rates to him-- and everyone with a pre-existing condition-- as everyone else pays. Fiddle de Dee, good old John didn't need "Obamacare", he has insurance for life. 'Obamacare" would force companies--or pay a fine--to cover employees, pre-existing conditions,children up to the age of 25 covered under their parents plan, eventually full prescription coverage to seniors (wrinklies) etc. etc.. If President Obama is reelected his medical plan will be phased in. Should Mitt Romney be elected he vows to kick Obamacare out...on his first day in office...even though as Governor of Massachusetts he signed a bill giving people of that state medical insurance, where today 93% of the population, whether they like it or not are insured. That program is the model used for "Obamacare". Now if elected he plans to stop the rest of the nation having the same medical insurance as he created!

I hope I've answered your questions satisfactorily and provided more grist for the mill.

Regards, Rodney (2nd Asst. Cook ret'd.)

Hi John P.

My best shot at answering you. If you were in the U.S. and are over 65 you would be covered by Medicare (see my first post). If you had minimal assets or low salary you would be covered by Medicaid (again see my first post). If you were a former employee of a large company, say like Ford, you would be covered medically to the same level you had before retirement.

Now I think Captain Kong will like this. In order to receive Social Security (pension), Medicare or Medicaid, one has to have paid into the system for "40 quarters" (10 years) before you get dime one (take that Boltanstarnies (?)).

Back to you John. Nobody can be refused medical treatment whether they have money or not, even if in the country illegally. If you had no money or insurance you would be billed, but sooner or later the hospital will realise you can't get blood out of a stone, eventually it would be written off, and you would still be treated. If you were: state/federal gov't. employee (teacher, fireman, police, postal worker, office clerk,) insured. Over 65 (10 years paid in) covered, Poor, covered, had a unionized employer, covered, ex-military, covered ( they have their own hospital system). The problem in the U.S. is those that fall through the cracks in the system, which can amount to 40 million in a nation of 325 million (?). I have lived here for 50 years, I've been to 42 of the 50 states. I have never seen sick or dead folk laying around the streets. Yes the poor souls who want to live under bridges and such apparently do, at least on t.v. they do, from which those who have never visited the U.S. form their opinions of us. Are there not homeless people in your respective countries?

Okay, a lighter note. John are you still painting? I too am self-taught (like everything I do) my problem is I can't change a tap washer or twist a bloody light bulb in the right way.
I guess I have a stupid teacher.

Regards, Rodney (2nd Asst. Cook ret'd.)

[Rodney Mills]

Red leg,

We have the same problem here in the states...late term pregnant women literally crawling over the border between Mexico and the U.S., taken to the emergency room of the nearest hospital. The baby is born, he or she is instantly an American citizen. I as an immigrant and a naturalized citizen object to this, she and the baby have jumped the queue.

Regards Rodney 2nd asst. cook ret'd.

[Les Woodard]

Not wanting to go of track but I have to ask you Rodney? Where you a bad boy while at sea? Hence the DR in your name. Do not take umbrige at this just know a few that ended up the DR nicknames.

[j.sabourn]

He could come back Les and say it stood for Dead Reckoning. Cheers John Sabourn.

[Red Lead Ted]

All my father,s family were Merchant Seaman during the war etc......... My dear old mam once asked me what the D.R. Meant i explained ships doctor of course mam i am fit for my next trip. Terry.