undercover cruise

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If I understood it correctly , the flat rate was $50 a month , but if you did not get $750 in tips the company made up the difference , so the company for a 350 hour month pays $1 for every seven hours worked or approx $0.15 an hour , the rest is paid for by the passengers . I am almost inclined to say where is the ITF , but I already know the answer to that one . As a cruise passenger you pay the wage bill on top of your trip costs , If no one paid tips for a month the company would have another $700 a crewman to pay or $700,000 a month , Really what makes sense out of this , I don't see any !!

[Louis the Amigo]

Hi shipmates, I have posted on this forum about this subject many times , but the ship-owners will still getaway with paying slave labour wages and the passengers will still be the cash cows who pay for it? "The old chestnut will be said again! the wages are more than they get working in there country???? to make The Greedy shipowners seem like a good employer . But in the long term accidents will happen. and lifes will be lost

[John Pruden]

its a wonder they don't have oars sticking out the sides{ save the fuel bill} how is it we are up in arms about this yet the same thing is happening in our own military for years the Gurkha's are paid a pension at a very reduced rate? what if crews joined the n.u.s would thees cruise liners be able to get into British ports? or do we still have an n.u.s??jp

[Glenn Baker]

I have always been a bit suspicous of all these many Cruise Ship Companys, and where they got their money from to build these huge Monstrosities known as Cruise liners.
When i think back it was huge expenditure to even build ships the size of the older Oronsay or Rangitoto for example they always carried cargo and had cargo hatches so that they remained economical.
Many of those Companys are now non existant and all these super mega rich Cruise Companys sprung up out of literally nowhere and Billions of Dollars were spent on these ugly ships of which have shopping centres and poker machine decks purely to take all your money while you are on board their ship. I often wondered if Drug Cartel money was ever used in this Industry now.
Gone are the days when it was 190pounds Wellington to Southampton 4 weeks of one class good food , a Dance one night a Movie the next and a Bingo nite too and yes surprise of all surprises people actually enjoyed themselves , and saw different places that wernt jam packed with postcard type images which they are now.
Having cheap crews is just another ploy Companys such as City and Ellermans did with Goanese crews, except these new Cruise Companys do it with even more stealth, even the Doctor or Nurses are on some sort of Contract the shops are leased etc and the Passengers pay for the lot lock stock and Barrel. you can have them for me, plus the fact that those ships carry 3000 people, youd have to put up withy any ilk of Society including proffessional thieves or what ever prostitution , all sorts, youd get the lot on those shocking buildings on flat bottom cruise ships. Glenn Baker

[Captain Kong]

Hi John,
There is No NUS it was taken over by the Rail, Maritime and Transport Union, RMT.
All the assets built up over many years by the subscribing Seafaring members has disapeared somewhere.
.
.As regards that programme last night , my impression was the biggest gangsters were the Agencies that hire the seafarers. they behave like the gang masters of illegal immigrants, You have to pay them to get a job. with all kinds of false promises. So when you have signed up you have to pay hidden fees. so you are in debt before you even start work.
.
Now that reporter was only there for five weeks so he had paid off most of his debt. That is why he only had a few bob at the end of five weeks.
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The commentator was on about these workers had to work a ten hour day, seven days a week. for three months to maybe six to ten months..
I still have my overtime book, in 1960 on the KENT, NZSC, I worked 14 hours a day, seven days a week for Six Months. I can scan it if anyone wants to see it. So we also worked exceedingly long hours.
.
The commentator said the hourly rate of pay in UK was £6.90p an hour. BUT a worker in UK has to pay bus fares to get to work, there is a high cost of living in the UK, He has to pay Council Tax, Tax on his wages, National Insurance Stamps, Buy Food, pay Gas, Electric and Water Bills, etc out of his £6.90p an hour,
The Seafarer, on that ship has nothing to pay for his food, heating and lighting and other costs. He has a duty free subsidised bar, very cheap, an Internet cafe where the are in daily contact with their families, He has very good accommodation, better than we experienced on the Passenger ships with 6 to ten and maybe up to 24 on the old Queen Mary, to a cabin, on that ship two to a cabin with an ensuite bathroom. They have TV, we never had that, not even a radio.
They do get good tips on those ships both as individuals and through the collective system.
ALSO this ship was a Foreign Company, registered in Valleta, Maltese Flag. So you cannot compare with British Flag ships and shore conditions in the UK.
The man complained that he had to do a lifeboat muster without overtime, I have never heard of anyone being paid to do Lifeboat drill.
The wages for the Philipino is very very good compared with wages of a Philipino working ashore in the Philipines,
I think Tony Wilding could comment on the average wage of a shore working man in CEBU.
You cannot compare with the British hourly wage.
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The Philipino seafarers working on all the Cunard Queens were all very happy with their jobs and did their time and went on leave and returned to the same ship. So it cannot be all that bad.
In the Philpines they are considered the cream and have a good standard of living.
On the last trip this year on Queen Elizabeth I always tip the Philipinos, good concientious and always cheerful, I gave nothing to the Eastern European waiters, they were surly , completely unhelpful and not good with hygene. Sneezing all over the food etc. they were Rubbish. I wouldnt even have given them a dollar an hour.
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So all in all I thought that prog was a little over the top and sensationalist.
They all were a lot better off than we were in the 50s and 60s.
I am certainly no way supporting the Ship owner, I hate shipowners more than anyone , but, lets have the facts right before we make instant comments.
Cheers
Brian
PS there is a good cruise in November 20, Southampton to New York and back to Southampton 15 days only £799.
very cheap for the QUEEN MARY 2. Cheaper than Benidorm. Unfortunately I cannot take advantage of the offer, I have Surgeons Appointment on the 30 of November.
The prog didnt turn me off cruising, it is the only way I can get around to see my old mates in the South Pacific Islands where no planes fly to. The flights to Tahiti cost over £2000 plus so it is as cheap to go on a cruise ship as to fly.
I am planning at the moment to sail back to the South Pacific next year.
I do not spend money on those ships, or use the casino, I take my own whisky on board , SHE does not drink , so my barbill is always nil, Also I never sail on those monstrosities like shoe boxes with thousands on board, I chose my ships for the comfort.
I worked hard and earned my money after 50 years hard graft in some dangerous situations , so I want to enjoy a bit of comfort in my old age.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Well said Brian

Reporting was for reportings sake, the good points never emphasised, I would want to undertake lifeboat drill whether paid or not. It was apparent that neither the reporter or his passenger reporter were used to hard work, she wasn't skimping on the benefits of the cruise and he was exhausted after five weeks. He should have tried being an apprentice in the 50's when 12- 16 hours a day were considered normal. We also had to provide all our own uniforms, study books etc, not coming from a well off family I had to borrow money from the Missions to Seamen, it took me nearly six years to pay it back, the salary of an apprentice or 3rd mate not leaving a lot of surplus. He had paid for his after five weeks.

Not a great lover of Shipowners (but have been treated fairly by some) but I think the fault of this shipowner was not controlling the recruiting agencies, but then again there is none so blind as those who do not want to see.

[Keith Tindell]

Hi Guys,
I dont follow the argument that these crews are earning huge wages compared with their homeland, surely that is the reason that British seamen have no jobs?. If that argument was applied to all of British industry, car manufacture, steel works etc, we could solve the export problem overnight, but there would be no jobs for us any where. Just my thoughts on it. I have never been on a cruise ship, but have looked at the sites online, and its not something that appeals to me , regards KT

[Captain Kong]

Hi Keith, I dont think anyone said the Filpinos were earning huge wages, but compared with the Philipines they are better off. You cannot compare their earnings with UK earnings, the costs in the Philipines are much , much lower than ours. So they are better off than their shore workers.
Try a Cruise ship, a proper one, not a huge monster, and talk to the Philipinos and they will tell you that.
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As regards to our own Industries, the UN with the Lima Agreement in 1975, [ everything went down hill after that ] we were told, nay ordered, to send our industries overseas to the third world countries. Almost everything you buy today has a Made in China label or Thailand and so on. I always rejoice if I see a Made in England label.
In the UK the industries that are left are foreign owned.
Cheers
Brian.

[Calvin Kent]

Cruising doesn't hold any appeal for me. I did one world cruise on the Oriana (sos) and scurried back to general cargo. Seventeen ports in nine weeks I think it was, felt sorry for the passengers

As regards crew wages and conditions nowadays I can't really comment. Like in all walks of life you lump it or leave it. If you can't dig coal for umpteen pence a bucket they'll shut your mine down and buy it elsewhere. Same with your shipyard, car manufacturer, or any other industry. There are always going to be people who will do anything cheaper just as there are always going to be people to take advantage of it, in this case the shipowners with increased operating profits and the passengers through cheaper holidays. I'm sure the shipowners haven't used up all the flags in the locker yet.

Oops, I did comment

[Ray McCerery]

Whichever way you dress it up, It still is cheap labour and the crews dare not complain, it is not only cruise ships it's the Ferries and offshore that are now employing cheap labour even in the Norwegian sector. Never mind talking about conditions of yesteryear I also spent nearly fifty years at sea. We all talk about hours and so forth, but conditions got better..... but not for these boys and girls from either thirld world countries or former eastern block countries. I think some should remove the tinted glasses.

Ray