William John Murray - lost at sea or absconded c 1927?

[John Powdrill]

Hello
This is a request for some assitance in tracking down exactly what happened to my grandfather William John Murray.
He was employed out of Liverpool as a "casual shipwright" with Canadian Pacific Ocean Serivices between, as far as it known, 1919 and 1927.
I have attached a data sheet giving as much information as possible regarding his origins and his life as far as is known.

My problem: William John Murray was reported as "lost at sea" when my mother (his daughter) was 4 years old. This would have been 1927. There is no documentation whatsoever that I can locate. No certificate of death, no reports. It is speculated that if he was not killed on the voyage, then he may have arranged to abscond on arrival in possibly New York - but we do not know.

Additional information not included on the data sheet:

Ellis Island records have been partially interrogated, but no concrete results. One possible lead (although the dates do not tally with the the evidence from his daughter) is a William Murray - listed on the list of aliens employed as crew on the ship Leviathan - sailing from Southampton and arriving New York December 21st 1924. Passenger ID 600168020193. This is of interested because the name has a pencil line running through it on the manifest which, according to Ellis Island staff, indicated that the person "failed to disembark".

I am not certain he falls into the category of "seaman" as his job was, as far as is known, was "shipwright". However, it is possible that he took other roles which involved travelling on the ships out of Liverpool (although the above if out of So'ton).

At this point I would be grateful for any help which can be given - in respect of actual searches or at least referral onwards.

Note also that my second cousin, Tony Byrne, has also tried a search previously in which he was helped enormously by Marian Gray - but unfortunately the proper name and dates had by that stage not been uncovered. There is a thread of Tony's exchanges on this site under "Missing at Sea" - but I am not sure how to link directly to that.

Grateful for any help.

[Doc Vernon]

As you mention it states that he Died at Sea most probably, as this shows!

Not sure of cause, but as they have a place noted it seems he was Buried in Dulwich UK. From that it surely can be possible to check the Burial records , and if so there must be a cause and Death Certificate held somewhere ??
Cheers

First name(s) William

Last name Murray

Year 1928

Place Dulwich

Country Great Britain

Archive reference BT 334

Source Deaths At Sea 1891 – 1972

[Des Taff Jenkins]

Hi John.
A shipwright was a seaman, he was the ships carpenter, so his being at sea was no problem.
Des

[John Powdrill]

Hi Doc, Very many thanks for your help - I am sorry it has taken a while to respond - not quite used to the forum yet. I will certainly check the Dulwich connection. This has moved the search on. Thank you.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks, Des - that is helpful as the MN is a new area for me as I get into this search. Most appreciated - and apologies for tardy response.

[John Powdrill]

Hello Doc
Just a further question, if you don't mind, re the William John Murray I am searching for. Was the record extracted from Ancestry, Find My Past - or from another dedicated archive? Just trying to clarify to which the archive the reference BT 334 might stand for. It may help when I start to dig into (no pun intended of course) the burial records. Thanks for your patience with this.
Many thanks
JP

[Doc Vernon]

Hello John P
That Ref is for the National Archives as such BT 334, however i got the info from Find My Past, which is a paid site!
Good Luck
Cheers


Board of Trade: Registrar General of Shipping and Seamen: Registers and Indexes of Births, Marriages and Deaths of Passengers and Seamen at Sea (nationalarchives.gov.uk)

I notice that in BT157 as mentioned in the PDF File above , that it referres to Cause of Deaths, i am not fimilar with this one, so dont know if it would ead you to more info ??

Possibly if our Hugh reads this he may be able to clarify ?
Cheers

[Hugh]

As you mention it states that he Died at Sea most probably, as this shows!
Not sure of cause, but as they have a place noted it seems he was Buried in Dulwich UK. From that it surely can be possible to check the Burial records , and if so there must be a cause and Death Certificate held somewhere ??

#2, This seaman was not buried in Dulwich UK but died aboard the ship DULWICH official number 162564. The seaman's home address was in Waterford, Ireland so I do not think this record is relevant.

BT 157 that Vernon refers to would not help as the time frame of the records is outwith the period that the enquirer is looking at.

Regards
Hugh

[Doc Vernon]

My apologies for any error i have posted on this site , it is not meant as a distraction, it is just things that really look like it may be relevant!

But Hugh know better than me !

Possibly now that Hugh is back seems a lot more , i should refrain from doing researching for now! I find a lot of things on the Internet, and at times the info does NOT refer to a name !
Cheers

[Hugh]

There is absolutely no need to apologise for trying to help with this thread. Don't worry Vernon I have no intention of being a regular poster on here. Much too busy, so please carry on.
Regards
Hugh

[John Powdrill]

Thanks to all for trying to help - all ideas are welcome. i am fining that trying to establish the fate of our William John Murray, a shipwright from Walton, Liverpool who died or somehow disappeared in 1927 or thereabouts is a task which will have many potential directions. At this stage all help is welcomed.