Newly Qualified Deck Officer

[Keith Tindell]

Ivan, ref articles, as i recall in my time 57-64 it was 2 year , and a six month clause, any port between Kiel canal and Brest you could pay off, ???. Also had on one occasion on the continent by mutual agreement, pay your own fare home + fare of the replacement, that was not for me but another crew member KT

[Ivan Cloherty]

Ivan, ref articles, as i recall in my time 57-64 it was 2 year , and a six month clause, any port between Kiel canal and Brest you could pay off, ???. Also had on one occasion on the continent by mutual agreement, pay your own fare home + fare of the replacement, that was not for me but another crew member KT

Keith I don't think many of us would have had money in the kitty to pay our own fare home and that of a replacement from anywhere on the Continent, on one ship a lad wanted to go home from Japan, he was told the same, pay two airfares and you can, he soon changed his mind, that would have been a years wages in the 50's

[j.sabourn]

#20.Yes Ivan it doesn't take much to bring back memories, which must lie in the back of the mind dormant for years, a one similar to yours was on a geared Foreign Flag bulk carrier with an Indian Crew. Passage W.Coast of States to South Korea. They had brought this old master out of retirement who was from Sunderland, for all his age and experience he was not aware of what went on under Hong Kong Articles and was always asking for advice. However on passage heavy weather carried away part of the handrails on the main deck and two of the derrick crutches, I jumped down to the main deck into plenty of water and got a line around both, the crew were jabbering away and wouldnt go down. Anyhow on going back on bridge got a right bollicking and told I should have let the derricks go overboard it was no great problem to him as was retired, he immediately sent a cable off to owners about the damage, came back and said what he had done and said he expected the owners would send their super out to attend to repairs. I told him otherwise apart from the management company not having a superintendent. Sure enough a cable came back let the Ch. Officer attend to the repairs arriving Seoul. He was fuming and said he had never seen such goings on, think he had been all his life in a decent company. However arriving Seoul asked the engineers (Indian) if they wanted the welding jobs, which they shied away from, so arranged through the agent to go through a small ship repair yard and the total cost of the job was peanuts. The old man a likeable old bloke really, came to my cabin in Seoul one night and said I've had enough Mr. Mate I'm going home, I thought he had had a couple of jars and was just joking. He wasn't when I got up next morning he was gone. All the paperwork that he had done was laid out neatly on his desk as a hand over. The company got in touch with me did I want the job and I sent back no thanks, They then said would I do them a good turn and take the ship to Japan where they would send out a replacement, which I agreed to do. They then sent out another old retired shipmaster who barely came out of his cabin. I was on that ship 13 months and enjoyed most of it, but wouldn't be tied down to one company and deprived of what in those far off days I considered liberty. All that shuffling around re ships personnel just because of a bit of minor heavy weather damage. Although think the original skipper was looking for an excuse to jump ship and as he said I am retired and can tell the shipowner to take a running jump at himself. Memories are made of this, just like the song. Cheers JWS

[j.sabourn]

Reply to my own post. Although others have sailed in the liner trades with the likes of BI and others who swear by Lascar crews, I have an open mind on such. The crew I had consisted of a British master and Mate, Parsee 2nd Mate, ****** 3rd. Mate, Pathan Bosun, and predominately ****** deck Crew. All the engineers apart from British Chief were Indian, and mainly ******. When things were going good all ok, however anything out of the normal routine was the next thing to panic stations. The Indian officers all tried to fashion themselves to what in their imagination was the big white sahib. I was much happier sailing with Chinese, which have already stated in previous posts. JWS

[j.sabourn]

#21... There was also a 6 month Running agreement Keith, for vessels trading in and out of the UK on short voyages such as those on BISCO charters, i.e. the ore carriers. Could give 72 hours notice in before arriving the UK. However unless sacked had to pay your own fare home. Have never heard of having to pay your replacements fare though, may have been an extra stuck in the agreement by the poor shipowner. Cheers JS

[Des Taff Jenkins]

HI John.
All the deep sea ships I signed on in the 40's and 50's were two year articles, even when we only did a trip to the gulf and back; I suppose like the British Builder where we were out for twelve months, it covered them from having to send anyone home. Mind you the British seaman could always find a way out like jumping in NZ or Aus.
Cheers Des.

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[j.sabourn]

#26... Des Know the 6 months running agreements were there in 1963 when I first went mate. Everytime 72 hours out I had to ask each individual seaman if he wanted to stay. Did this when they signed for their overtime. If they said no then had to tell the old man then he had to radio in for replacements for arrival. The ore carriers I was on were JIJacobs and RS Dalgliesh. Was told no more than 3 hours a day standard overtime for the deck. The likes of Denems and Houlders were paying 6 hours a day whether true or not I don't know, some must have believed as were always some getting out after a few weeks, I hope they did get their 6 hours a day, otherwise were conned as usual. They had their fares paid home if they did the full 6 months, or were sacked, which some wanted me to do and played up for, which being the stubborn sod I refused to do, had 3 of them at one time on one ship which I am sure had been planted by one of the breakaway unions to cause as much trouble as possible, when signing for their overtime I asked them back and they were all shocked as were expecting the sack, so had to go away and think about it. Came back and said they thought it better to resign. Later they came back and asked if I could loan them the money for their fares home. What do you think my reply was. This was not on an Ore Carrier but the Warkworth a general cargo ship. So applied also the 6 months running agreement to other vessels as well. As far as I can recollect all overtime was paid for by BISCO on the ore boats and ships mostly were on a 15 year Charter. So can take that payment of overtime and what was allowed either way. Cheers JS

[j.sabourn]

After the seamens strike in 66. Was told there would only be necessary overtime. Also they changed the rules and if automatic steering on board were down to either 1 or 2 seamen on a watch. Know it went down to 1 at sometime after. This meant only 3 seamen had guaranteed overtime for the weekend watches. I started going looking in the Lloyds Gazette and Journal of Commerce for employment elsewhere and finished up for the next 11 months working for Saguenay Terminals of 1060 University Street Montreal, a subsidiary of Alcoa, and working for the mighty Dollar. After that over 3 years working for Chowgules an Indian Company, and then hit a bad one and came home from Japan under my own head of steam, losing quite a bit of money and a lot of my golden locks which took on a grey hue. The British ships apart from the Temple Hall which I was on were all on this 6 months Running Agreement, the Temple Hall 2 years agreement but were supposed to be relieved after 5 months. The foreign ships made ones own agreement and had put in the Articles, I always stipulated 12 months maximum. JS

[Red Lead Ted]

Terry I cannot tell you what the rules and regulations are these days, but remember sseing a programme not too long ago about a training ship where-on the deck crew were not allowed to go above 2 metres without a harness and even under 2 metres had to have an attendant, also in the same programme was not allowed to change a masthead light whilst at sea and in port was harnessed up with with full harness, safety helmet, goggles etc heaved up in a bosun's chair with attendant and ch officer on site. A long cry from my days when summoned to the bridge in a gale and told 'cadet change that bulb on the mainmast' no harnesses then, up the mast ladder, up onto the mast table whose access was designed by a masochist and then up the tatty rope ladder to the light, whilst erstwhile vessel was doing its best to roll and pitch you into the briny some 70 feet below. No one in attendance, no one to give a sh*te and they only knew you hadn't gone over the wall is when the indicator light came on on the bridge bulkhead indicator, you then had to go to the bridge to tell them it was working, which they could very well see from the bridge wing, I suppose it was just to ensure you hadn't gone over the wall on the way down, eh, but we loved it, a job well done, but never a bloody thankyou

Indeed Ivan, I always kept my eye on the navigation light situation on the bridge, It was your biggest nightmare being on watch and of course the bloody bulb on the fore mast conked, Once I had it at sea on the graveyard watch mid Atlantic not a gale but certainly rolling around like a fairground ride, The Second Mate, Just looked me in the eye with the bloody bulb in his hands It was a hairy job and as you well know them bolts on the lamp you just new would be seized up so it was a bucket lashed around your waste Pliers/ Bulb/ and off you went the only way was up, I must admit going aloft was part of the job to me on a lovely sunny day with the forepart and wings to paint or the mast regardless of what job you took you where all out to look after each other and that's where the camaraderie kicked in, And I enjoyed it it was a bit different at 2am on your lonesome ship heaving and rolling in a heavy swell, Where all here to tell the tale mate Terry. p.s. Anyone tells me they never shouted { BELOW } While aloft tell porkies

[Ivan Cloherty]

#29 and others, wish we could do it all again under the same circumstances, oh that we were that young! but we've had our time and they cannot take that away from us. Those who haven't been to sea don't realise what the camaraderie is all about, or cannot believe how we looked after each other when the chips were down, even the biggest sh*t on the ship got looked after if he was in trouble ashore, but we have our memories some of which are not always viewed through rose tinted spectacles, sometimes we wonder how we survived some of the things we did both afloat or ashore and at times wished we were somewhere else at the time. Looking back on it we worked hard, got paid little, played hard and are none the worse for it. We lived at the right time