New to this :)

[Naz Shafaq]

Hello,

I am new on this site and new to searching for this type of information. Due to poor records and accounts, I have very little concrete information to go by, and I am not sure where to start. My Great grandfather Mohammed Choor was a ‘serang’ in the Indian merchant navy. He relocated from an area of modern Azad Kashmir to then Bombay. During WW2, he had helped recruit men from the original village to join the Navy, including 3 of his sons. My three Great uncles were on the same ship during the Burma campaign, and sadly, two of them perished when the ship was attacked, whilst the eldest returned safely home after being rescued and redirected through either Malaysia or Singapore.

Where would I begin to search for vessels that might fit this account?

Many thanks,

Naz

[Doc Vernon]

Hello Naz
Not that i have been on any research such as this, but could you if known, give us the name of the Ship in Question, from there it may be a pointer to go father!

Also the DB and Place of Birth of your Family in Question.
Thank You

Just wondering if the Ship belonged to the Scindia Steam Navigation Company Ltd. 1919

Mind you later there were a few other Indian Shiping Companies then too.

In 1932, the company purchased the Bengal Burma S.N. Co.; the company also purchased the Indian Co-operative Navigation & Trading Co., the Ratnagar S.N. Co.

[Naz Shafaq]

Thank you for your response. This is a particularly tricky bit of research for numerous reasons and I do wonder whether I will ever uncover any answers. My relations were from a rural part of then India and records of births and deaths were obsolete (I don’t believe it was a legal requirement) therefore I have no information on date of birth. My own father does not have his true date of birth on his passport but rather a good guess! The other issue I have is that we did not have a family name as such and we have only really started the tradition of family names here in the UK. Most of the men were known by a single name (in this case Diwan, Zamaan, and Paju) and usually Mohammed as a first name. There could be several variations of spelling also. I visited the family village for the first time two years ago, and there was nothing really left, and certainly no paperwork. I do not know the name of the ship and the only information I have is as per the original post. I’m expecting it to be a needle in a haystack and I may never find answers, but willing to give it a try.

[Doc Vernon]

Hello Naz
Thank you for reply, and i guess from what i now read it will indeed be a real Needle in a Haystack!

Unfortunately without any solid Names or places or Dates of Birth, at this point i am sorry but cannot even try and guess where to start!

I had looked at a few places myself (Just feeling things out) .
However as said now with this Info you give it doesnt look at all good!

Some research is at best quite a job, even with Names etc, but without well ??

I do hope possibly with time you may be able to go forward, and i can only wish you all the best in your research.

Cheers

Added
Would you have any idea or guess at what Year that Ship in question was??

That may just be a starting point!

I ask this as , just an Example of what one may find??

surname first name wreck date of birth date of death Diwan Ali SS Mundra 06/07/1942 Diwan Ali SS Nieuw Zeeland 11/11/1942 Diwan Ali SS Baron Semple 30/10/1943 Diwan Ali SS Nairung (II) 1902 18/08/1944 Diwan Ali Nadir SS Terkoelei 17/03/1943 Read more at wrecksite: https://wrecksite.eu/refPosView.aspx?180461

[Naz Shafaq]

Unfortunately not, all history has been passed down through the oral tradition and we do not have any elders who can recollect. My paternal great grandfather was also in the merchant navy (other side of the family) and could only recall a few details and not specifics about his own experiences. He could not recall the name of the ship he was on, but he was just a child at the time, having added some years to his approximate date of birth.

[Doc Vernon]

That is so sad , as who knows what History may lie withing the unknown of the Family!

Again i wish you the best of Luck

Cheers

[j.sabourn]

#5.: Naz I spent 2.5 years with an Indian Company sailing with Indian crews and Indian junior officers. Between the years of 1966 and 1970. The company was Chowgules of Goa, the Indian crews all came through the Bombay pool and the average age I would say was about 50. Every seaman joined the ship with a set of chest X-Rays to supposedly prove he was clear of TB , but was obvious in most cases those chest pictures were mostly of a younger person , however that is besides the point. Have you tried the Bombay records office, for Bombay now read Mumbai as you well know. Cheers JS.
PS. The first Serang I had was a little Pathan, the second one was the headman of an Indian village and most of the crew from the same village also. So worked a damn sight better.best of luck in your search. JS.

[Naz Shafaq]

Thanks for the pointer. My grandfather was born in Bombay/Mumbai and we know the family spent some years there due to my great grandfathers occupation. That will definitely be a good place to start. Mohammed Choor was well known in the village and due to his status at the time, he was able to ‘recruit’ many others. Of course there was a lot of poverty at the time, so it was quite common for younger males to add years to their age so that they too could sign up to support their families. I wonder if they would have been quite so willing if they knew what it would truly entail. My paternal great grandfather found the idea to be very exciting and being a naive 14 year old, thought it would be one way to escape the mundane village and see the world. I don’t think he regretted the decision in the end because it was how he ended up living and working in the UK for most of his adult life.

[j.sabourn]

There is every chance that he finished up in the NE of England area then as around the Tyne area were many such as who you are looking for. The only nearest to the name I can recollect was a Chou but he was of Chinese ancestry and was bosun with me in the early 1970s. However in any case think he was born in the UK and went to school with a recent passed member of this site from South Shields.Keep an open mind and keep looking . Cheers JS
Errata have looked up and was in the sixties he was with me. I was mate on the Warkworth from 1/3/66 to 26/7/66 the person I am talking about was bosun with me me it was mainly on the Montreal and Port Churchill run during this period.if you come across the name in your searches the Warkworth was owned by RS Dalgliesh of Newcastle, Chou or Chew May of been off a mixed marriage ? Seaman in that era did not question such as many of them unbeknown to them may of been fathers without knowing it.Chou/Chew would today if still alive be in his late 80’s. If you can get a crew list of that era of that ship it just might lead to better things who knows. It is probably one lead good or bad of many other probables and possibles. JS

[Naz Shafaq]

Mohammed Choor (serang) returned to his home in now Azad Kashmir and died in the 60’s. I tried to locate his grave for further information when I visited but found that the part of the graveyard where he had been buried had suffered a landslide, and the grave was sadly lost. His eldest son Diwan from his first marriage also returned to the village but was effectively shunned by my great grandmother as she was distraught that he did not return with her two sons, his half brothers. Diwan left the village, and from what I heard, he married. His wife was barren for many years but then became pregnant, but sadly died during childbirth as well as their daughter. I do not know what happened to him after this, nor where he could be buried.

My paternal great grandfather (who was also in the Indian navy during WW2 as a trimmer) was called Khan Wali. He stayed in the UK after the war working in steel foundries then retired to Azad Kashmir in later years. He returned to the UK in his 90’s when his wife passed away and lived amongst our family until his death in 2011. His memories were quite limited with regards to the war, and could not give specifics of the ship he was on. He thought the ship was near an Arab land for 3 months and that they eventually moved to Liverpool? It was quite difficult to take a history but he did speak of the many men from the village that were in the Indian navy at the time and the significant numbers that died during the conflict.