Hello from Canada; searching for family member

[Karen Booth]

Thank you so much for letting me join this group, and thank you for your hard work and dedication.

It was only a few years ago that I learned I had a great-uncle, James Duncan Black, who was a Merchant Mariner (No. 407655), but finding out more about him has been painstaking. I've confirmed he was born in Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland, on Aug. 17, 1884 and died in Dover on July 8, 1974. I know he spent his childhood and early adulthood in Liverpool, and that he had a younger sister there, Mary Isabelle Black, who was hearing impaired. On Jan. 16, 1917 in the French port city of Le Havre, Seine-Maritime, he married Victorine Isabelle Degryse (Nov. 11, 1894-Jan. 2, 1976); it appears they were childless.

He clearly excelled at his job, and must have had exceptional problem-solving skills to have achieved the rank of chief engineer officer.

On June 24, 1946, he was made an MBE — though I've struggled to find out the specific reason(s) for that honour! I can only suspect that it involved his marine service in one or both World Wars. Listed as "Duncan Black," I have identified a 59-year-old chief engineer officer leading a 60-person crew on the BP motor tanker British Purpose when U-532 fired on them off the southwestern Indian port of Mangalore on Oct. 20, 1943. I assume this is him, but cannot confirm. I even travelled to Liverpool a year ago, visiting the Archives Centre at the Maritime Museum, hoping to learn more about him, but gleaned little. You are my last hope.

Did he use his middle name, not his first? Was he also involved in the evacuation of Dunkirk, or with D-Day?

From the Dover Express on Aug. 2, 1974 comes this account of his passing:

“MR. J. D. BLACK, RETIRED engineer superintendent for Trinity House Pilotage Service Mr. James Duncan Black, of Folkestone Road, Dover, died on 8th July aged 90. A Requiem Mass was held at St. Paul’s R.C. (Roman Catholic) Church followed by interment at St. James’ Cemetery on 12th July. The Rev. M. Boland officiated. Mourners were: Mrs. V.I. Black (widow). Mrs. R. Taylor, Mrs. J. Gunn (nieces). Mr. R. Taylor, Mrs. M. Hood, Mrs. M. Sansum, large section of Sisters from St. Mary’s Convent, Mr. and Mrs. Golding, Miss Murphy, Mr. and Mrs. P. Watts (friends), Capt. Milward, S.O.P., Mr. J. McLeod, C.E.S., Mr. Tapley (representing Trinity House). (Co-operative Funeral Service).”

Again I thank you.

Kind regards,

Karen

[Doc Vernon]

Hello Karen
Thank you for joining and asking the questions.
To start with, if he has any records (which i am sure he will have ) here is a start Link to his CRS10 File Card. This CRS10 should have quite a lot of info on it, like his Ships served on etc.
You will have to apply for it from Kew, and pay the initial cost of 8 GBP. This is non refundable wether they find or dont find anything. They will then send you an Email with Total Cost for the Cards, which you can accept or reject! The Cards will be then sent through Email.

Please give them as much info as you possibly can, and make sure you ask for his CRS10 only mas there would be many Cards in the Series and you would not want the cost of that! Eeeeek!! LOL

Black D to Black R | The National Archives

I will continue to look for other info for you and Post here if i do come across anything else!
Cheers

Added

Black J D War Medal.JPG

He received the War Medal 1939/45 and another 1939/45 Star.
Medal listing of Black MBE, James Duncan Discharge number: No407655

Awarded MBE for Gallantry at Sea.

Reference:	BT 395/1/7678
Description:	Medal listing of Black MBE, James Duncan Discharge number: No407655 Date of Birth: 17 August 1884
Date:	[1946-2002]
Held by:	The National Archives, Kew
Legal status:	Public Record(s)
Closure status:	Open Document, Open Description
Access conditions:	Open on Transfer

Crewlist from British Purpose (British motor tanker) - Ships hit by German U-boats during WWII - uboat.net

Crew list of Ships hit by U-boats


Duncan Black

Merchant Navy. British

Decorations 29 Aug 1944 King's Commendation (C)

Roster information listed for Duncan Black

	Ship	Type	Rank / role	Attacked on	Boat
	British Purpose	Motor tanker	Chief Engineer Officer	20 Oct 1943	U-532

I have not been able to locate him on this list? But there are many names to go through?? This seems to be the list for June 24th 1946.
Cheers

Page 3119 | Supplement 37617, 18 June 1946 | London Gazette | The Gazette

[j.sabourn]

Karen your family are no relation to the shipowner Alan Blacks of Sunderland are they ? When I worked for John I. Jacob’s was one of that family working as a Marine Deck Superintendant. Very small chance as Black is quite a common name. However if all else fails on looking for info.re your Great Uncle then being a member of the Grand Order of the British Empire and he followed his requests from the Chancellory to notify them of all changes of address and also a request that they be notified on his death. If someone in your family is in possession of his Warrant from the Monarch there will be no info. on this but that info. may also be kept in the Chancellory. Best of luck in your endeavours. JS
There has been a couple of others at various times and I have given the same advice , whether they did or not I don’t know as was no feed back. If you do follow that path would be appreciated if successful or not so I can tell my family the same or not to do. JS

[j.sabourn]

Ref. #3. Karen a couple of statements made in the official explanation of the MBE……..it is also awarded to members of the MN…..A civilian list is drawn up by the P.M. and a military list by the Secretary of State for Defence. There are fixed limits to how many hold the different grades at the same time. The top class of the Order is limited to 27 Military, and 73 Civil. The other classes have larger numbers obviously. Probably why they want to know when you become deceased so someone else can be made up.?
The British Empire Medal is associated with the Order and for those who already hold the Medal several bars can be attached. Since December 1957 medals awarded for gallantry , as opposed to meritorious service , have been distinguished by the addition of an emblem composed of two silver oak leaves.
JS
PS A recent master of Trinity House was made up to a KBE ( knight of the Grand Order of the British Empire )
JS.

[wightspirit]

His medal card for the First World War is here, downloadable: https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D7978997. You may wish to contact Southampton City Archives where his original merchant navy registration card is/should be held. If you're lucky it will have his photo as well as the official numbers of some of the ships he served on, from which we can determine their names. The archives usually supply a good quality laser copy of these cards.

Dave W

[Doc Vernon]

Just to help the Lady here and thanks to wightspirit.
Cheers

BT-351-1-11493.pdf

Also a Link to the Southampton Archives .

Our collections (southampton.gov.uk)

Merchant Seamen enquiries

We charge £20 to search the Central Index Register of Merchant Seamen, a collection of over a million merchant navy service record cards.

You can use the Form supplied here and ask the Questions if you so wish.
Good Luck

General enquiries (southampton.gov.uk)

Info. How to use merchant navy records at Southampton Archives

[Karen Booth]

Thank you for your reply. I've spent most of my life on the landlocked prairies of Canada, so my knowledge of the Merchant Navy and its workings is scant, to put it mildly. My paternal grandmother, who was James Duncan Black's younger half-sister, had been orphaned and came to Canada as a child; she never spoke of having half-siblings! My Canadian cousins and I were unaware we had a great-uncle back in England until a few years ago.
In 2022, I was directed to approach the London Metropolitan Archives for records held by Trinity House. One archivist there told me I'd be charged £160 to £200, with no guarantee that I'd learn anything more so I set aside my search.

[Karen Booth]

Thanks for the information about the CRS10 cards; I have just emailed a request to the Southampton Archives and was told it could take up to 21 days for them to reply.
Wish me luck, and please contact me if other information crops up.
Karen

[Doc Vernon]

Dont forget my post #2 as well Karen. There should also be Records for him there as i have shown on the Link!
Cheers

[j.sabourn]

#7 Karen for your info. As your great uncle was a member of Trinity House , the present master is I believe Captain Sir Ian McNaught who received his knighthood in the birthday honours in June 2024.He was the former Deputy Master. JS.