MN member who subsequently became RNLI coxswain

[kenneth baugh]

Hello all,glad to join you. Glad also to see the end of 2020 today and look forward with hope for us all, for better times in 2021.

As you will see from my profile, I am a grandson of a seafaring man but I know I was a severe disappointment to him (getting seasick when working his lobster pots- but I blamed the smell of the bait and diesel combined).

Robert Charles Brown born 16/5/1901 was the son of Charley, a member of Swanage lifeboat service and joined his father in the old sailing/rowing boat originally stationed in Swanage. The attachments to this post show him as a very young man not specifically dated although the one where he looks younger shows "Desdemona 20/10/20". First question, on what occasion were these "Identity Certificates" issued? They bear different numbers so presumably are not absolute proof of identity (or were multiple certificates issued to the same man on say a change in appearance?)-I obtained these certificates from "Find my Past". I guess their records are complete so no further issues were made (?). Is there any central record of a MN man's career or activities? From other sources, I guess his MN activities to have been between 1920 and 1929.

Secondly, does "Desdemona" (1920) mean something to somebody. In my searches I have noted the celebrated abandonment of a vessel of this name in 1985 in Argentina but think this is unlikely to be the same one. I did note a Desdemona being one of a series of ships built in Germany and one of them ceded to Britain after the end of WW1. Could this be her? Can I be directed to any further information about her?

Semi-finally, could a senior member of the Service explain how M.N. men came to get their navigational training in say the early 1920s? I doubt correspondence courses existed or any other "distance learning" method. I can only assume it was through direct, on the job training under more experienced men and those that absorbed it, prospered. I was aware (through being brought up by Bob Brown-see profile) that he had more knowledge about seagoing that even his direct experience of the ledges and other undersea perils around Swanage Bay (eg Peveril Ledge) would have given him. Later in his career he was tasked with bringing a temporary lifeboat from her station further West back to Swanage station. He needed more than local knowledge to do that safely and did so.

Rather than muddle this thread with another tack I will post separately to give anybody who had the luck to cross paths with "Bob Brown", Coxswain of Swanage lifeboat to share any memories.

(please remember you are dealing with a land-lubber! Any mistaken terminology utilised above sincerely regretted. Grand father never forgave me for once referring to a "map" for getting from Swanage to the Isle of Wight instead of a "chart"-("Chart, boy, Chart!")

Ken Baugh

[Keith Tindell]

Welcome to the site from another Isle of Wighter, i m am not able to answer your query, but we have some excellent research members here, and for sure you will be hearing from them shortly, regards kt

[Keith at Tregenna]

Does sound like: Desdemona SS (1915~1921) Greenland SS [+1941]

https://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?143667

Keith.

[Keith at Tregenna]

Robert Charles Brown born 16/5/1901

Ken Baugh

Was he born in Wareham ?

Robert Charles Brown
United Kingdom, Merchant Navy Seamen Records, 1835-1941

Name:
Robert Charles Brown
Event Type:
Military Service
Event Year Range:
1918-1921
Event Place:
United Kingdom
Birthplace:
Dorsetshire
Birth Year:
1901

[kenneth baugh]

No Keith. Wareham is "county town" and Registration district of the Isle of Purbeck. He was born in Swanage, father Charley Brown, mother Amy Annis (originally from Ipswich but thats another story)

[Keith at Tregenna]

Thanks, will take another look ASAP.

K.

[Keith at Tregenna]

No Keith. Wareham is "county town" and Registration district of the Isle of Purbeck. He was born in Swanage, father Charley Brown, mother Amy Annis (originally from Ipswich but thats another story)

Wareham was a initial find,

Pos the #4: is correct.

Name:
Robert Charles Brown
Event Type:
Military Service
Event Year Range:
1918-1921
Event Place:
United Kingdom
Birthplace:
Dorsetshire
Birth Year:
1901

There is another entry that matches the date but Poole.

Robert Charles Brown
England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007

Name:
Robert Charles Brown
Event Type:
Death Registration
Registration Quarter:
Apr-May-Jun
Registration Year:
1989
Registration District:
Poole
County:
Dorset
Event Place:
Poole, Dorset, England
Birth Date (available after June quarter 1969):
16 May 1901

[Doc Vernon]

The ID Number is one that was on his actual ID Certificate (Card) which would have had his Photo Fingerprints etc The other Number is his Seamans Discharge Book Number, which would hold basic info, and his Ships he was on, one of which is showing namely Desdemonia.
Cheers

[Ivan Cloherty]

Ken, to answer part of your query.

Navigation is an ancient art and the first recorded navigation school was in Kingston-upon-Hull, or just Hull as it was known at that time. That school was Trinity House which started out as the 'Parish Guild' in 1466 for teaching boys, the first official title of Hull Trinity House Navigation School (HTHNS) was on 11th October 1729, although the school had taught pilotage skills for 200 years prior to this to seamen. Navigators were known as pilots in those days and not all ships Masters had full navigation skills and employed pilots. In 1729 it was decided that boys who had reached the age of 10 years and could read and write would be collected in the school, clothed and fed and taught the art of navigation and seamanship, don't forget in those days we were still discovering far off lands. Many of the navigators at the Battle of Trafalgar had been HTNHS trained. During my tenure at the school over 70 years ago we all wore Nelson type uniforms, with white blanco collars, 36 brass buttons on our waistcoat and bumfreezer jacket, all dark blue except on Sundays when we marched through the town to church in our uniforms with white duck canvas trousers, come rain or shine winter and summer. We also wore our white uniforms on chapel days, first wednesday every month. You've never seen so many girls in church on a Sunday. The chapel days were private. The school was granted a royal charter in the 1600's at the same time as Hull became 'Kings Town upon the River Hull' later shortened to Kingston upon Hull.

Sea sickness is nothing to be ashamed of, I was never seasick, but sailed with trawler men, who after enduring scary weather and rough seas for 3 - 4 weeks were seasick as soon as they rounded Spurn Point into the calm waters of the Humber.

[j.sabourn]

Even during Nelson’s time , the bigger ships nearly all carried sailing masters who were not naval trained. Also most of the navy was manned by pressed men, Mostly merchant seamen. Merchant seamen or merchant venturers were there a long time before the navy existed. Most naval officers like army ones were people of wealth and bought their commissions , they were there to pose as stalwart fighting men with gleaming rapiers in hand . The real fighting was left to the foot soldiers and Matelots. History books are full of such stalwart men with rapier in hand, every picture does tell a story , unfortuanetley not always a true one. JS.