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28th September 2017, 12:27 PM
#1
Hello and help
Hello,
Firstly, thank you for allowing me access as a member to your site. My history is that I'm not an ex-seaman, I was a soldier (infantry) and currently a police officer.
My interest in the Merchant Navy stems from my granddad. I am exploring my family history and due to my military background I am researching my families military background. I have managed to find my other relatives quite easily through MOD establishments providing copies of their service records however I have found my research into the Merchant Navy much more difficult, thank fully I seem to have found your community, who I'm sure will be able to assist me.
My granddad served in the Merchant Navy during WW2. I have managed to piece together some information from the National Archive and I obtained a redacted copy of his seamans pouch, which I'm pleased to say, included a photograph. I have tried to see what Medals he would have been entitled to in BT395, unfortunately I cannot find a record of him, this may be because he never claimed them.
From my research I believe I will need to get a copy of something called a CRS10 however they do not appear to be digital and it is likely the National Archive will charge me a substantial amount to research this, I am really hoping if there is someone on this site who has some way of obtaining this in a cheaper manner than asking the National Archive to research it. I would go and visit the archive myself but I live in Fleetwood and it's a long journey to consider. Would anyone know if I could pay an agent, closer to the archive, to conduct this research for me at a cheaper cost than the Archive would charge?
These are the details I know. My granddad was:
Arthur Hebron Vickers bn.19/09/1925
His Discharge No. R298775
He did his RN Training at HMS General Gordon and was then posted to the Merchant Navy at Liverpool
I have no idea what ships he sailed on, other than the family saying he was part of the Atlantic Convoys
I believe I will need a copy of his CRS10 which is likely to be: 'BT382/1850 - Verrall W G to Vickers W H'
My granddad was a seaman all his life, when he returned from the war he became a trawlerman and educated himself to end up being a skipper and eventually he ended his career at sea skippering oil rig supply boats off the coast of Africa.
Any help identifying what ships he sailed on and which convoys he sailed on would be gratefully received, thank you.
Regards,
Chris
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28th September 2017, 01:01 PM
#2
Re: Hello and help
Hi Chris , someone will put you on the right track. welcome . Sounds like the earliest he would. Of gone to sea at 15 then would have been 1940/41 A fishing Skipper ( Full) would. Have probably given him the qualifications to go on the supply vessels, or he may have gone also for a foreign going tugmaster. To. Get the seatime in for an ordinary F.G. Master would have taken about 10 years. Which would have brought him up to about 1955 at the earliest. About this time I think the companys having support ships working in that area could have been Zapata, OIL ( Ocean Inchcape Ltd. ) Tidewater and maybe a few more. However his dis. Number should give you a good start. People on site will know more about supplying advice on this. Regards JWS.
Last edited by j.sabourn; 28th September 2017 at 02:22 PM.
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28th September 2017, 03:13 PM
#3
Re: Hello and help
Hi Chris,
here are the photos of the AKAROA and the MADRAS CITY.
Cheers
Brian
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28th September 2017, 07:56 PM
#4
Re: Hello and help
Hello Chris
You are correct in the Seamans Pouch ,there is basic info on these but at times can be a start!
Reference: |
BT 372/670/28 |
Description: |
R298775 VICKERS A H 19/09/1925 THORNTON LANCASHIRE |
Date: |
1913-1972 |
Held by: |
The National Archives, Kew |
Former reference in its original department: |
R298775 |
As for the CRS10 yes you will have to go to Kew in Person ,which will still work out cheaper than if they could do a search and send you Digital Copies,with time it would take them.
Best to take all the references with you and do a self search,there are many staff there that are very helpful as well.
The REFERENCE you have of the CRS10 is also correct!
There are as you say no Medal Listings for him!
Cheers
Senior Site Moderator-Member and Friend of this Website
R697530
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28th September 2017, 09:42 PM
#5
Re: Hello and help
If you did want to do an online request (you may already know) it would cost you 8 GBP just to let you know if his CRS10 is available ,so in a way that may be the first step!
But up to you now and good luck!
Let us know how you go!
Senior Site Moderator-Member and Friend of this Website
R697530
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29th September 2017, 09:00 AM
#6
Re: Hello and help
Welcome to the site Chris.
I'm sure help will be appearing soon.
Ron the batcave
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29th September 2017, 09:37 AM
#7
Re: Hello and help
Hi Chris my brother was 3 months older than your grandfather his Dis.Book No.R283664 issued a little earlier than your grandfathers.He was also at HMS Gordon at Gravesend and I think that he was there in 1943.As far as I'm aware he was called up for the RN and whilst at Chatham the intake were asked did anyone have MN experience and would they like to change over to the MN.I know my brother was on a Polish ship the Batory before he was called up maybe he didn't have a Discharge Book to sail on her and he received the book at HMS Gordon.The reason I think it would be 1943 as that's when he would've been 18 years of age.
Regards.
Jim.b.
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30th September 2017, 04:41 AM
#8
Re: Hello and help
Hi Jim that name the Batory stirs the memory up as have heard before somewhere in the distant past. When people quote certification of the past, they forget that in our time you learned on the job, so to speak, and sea time was the ruling factor as had to be on a trading vessel. Could be done in about 10 years seatime,and seatime was the ruling factor, when you take what little leave you took this was not taken into account when the examiner checked your seatime. Also age came into the equation as 20 years old was the soonest a certificate of competency would be issued , although could sit the exam before this. Today people do not go to sea with these rules and regulations and as far as I can see more or less go to sea already qualified more or less. I have not really followed the regs. but only took notice before I retired of some of the people I sailed with. Rather think there was a polish ship visited the Tyne occasionally called the Batory after the war. Cheers JWS
Last edited by j.sabourn; 30th September 2017 at 04:44 AM.
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30th September 2017, 04:59 AM
#9
Re: Hello and help
The SS Batory had a great World War II record as a Lucky Ship , and post war was used up till the early 1970s . pr war Gdyna - New York run , she carried Polih treasure to the USA pre war , in World War II carried the UK gold reserve to Canada , children to Australia , then use as a troopship . a book was written about her called the " Singing Ship "p
Rob Page R855150 - British & Commonwealth Shipping ( 1965 - 1973 ) Gulf Oil -( 1973 - 1975 ) Sealink ( 1975 - 1986 )
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30th September 2017, 08:49 AM
#10
Re: Hello and help
John #9 maybe you have seen the Stefan Batory on your travels she was always in Montreal at the same time as us on the Empress Of Britain,our ships football team used to play against their team on a regular basis.
Regards.
Jim.B.
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