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27th March 2017, 08:13 AM
#11
Re: Hello
Thank you all for your welcome and your help.
The only Ship I know he was Captain of was the MV Jollity, and that is the last ship he was on before he disappeared in 73, so he could possibly have gone on to other ships, I just don't know. I am 53, 54 this year, all this happened when I was 9 and 10 years old so I am wondering now, whether I am getting mixed up with Cathay Pacific, which right enough was based in Hong Kong where Sandy was based, so that might be right. I am not aware that he had his discharge papers with him, nobody mentioned them anyway.
I just want to reassure you all, The Queen Victoria Seaman's Rest Mission in East London, could not have done more for my Uncle. I cannot praise them highly enough. When the manager of the Mission retired he arranged for my Uncle to be moved to a home nearer to him, as by then my Uncle was suffering from cancer. An amazing man, he went out his way to ensure my Uncle was happy in his remaining years, and for that I will forever remain in his debt.
Valerie x
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29th March 2017, 10:01 PM
#12
Re: Hello
Originally Posted by
Hugh
Hello and welcome Valerie,
His Seaman's Pouch is held at The National Archives Kew in piece
BT 372/1694/96 This file can be a bit hit or miss but usually contains an id photo. His full service record up until 1972 should be held at Kew in piece
BT 382/3006 best obtained by visit to Kew or via a researcher. Sadly, there will be no records after 1972. Hope that helps.
Regards
Hugh
Hugh, thank you so much for that information, just an update. I contacted The National Archives in Kew, who directed me to The Maritime and Coastguard Agency, who then directed me to the UK Ship Register (Merchant Ships). The lady there was extremely helpful they had records of my uncle up until 1994, which really was a great help.
Without your help Hugh, I would not have been able to find that information, so once again thank you.
Valerie x
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30th March 2017, 07:26 PM
#13
Re: Hello
Originally Posted by
Valerie Moseley
Hugh, thank you so much for that information, just an update. I contacted The National Archives in Kew, who directed me to The Maritime and Coastguard Agency, who then directed me to the UK Ship Register (Merchant Ships). The lady there was extremely helpful they had records of my uncle up until 1994, which really was a great help.
Without your help Hugh, I would not have been able to find that information, so once again thank you.
Valerie x
You're welcome Valerie.
We know that Kew do not hold records beyond 1972 and The Maritime and Coastguard Agency only hold records from 1999 till the present so would be interested in what kind of records you got up until 1994 and where?
Thanks
Hugh
"If Blood was the price
We had to pay for our freedom
Then the Merchant Ship Sailors
Paid it in full”
www.sscityofcairo.co.uk
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31st March 2017, 08:15 AM
#14
Re: Hello
Originally Posted by
Hugh
You're welcome Valerie.
We know that Kew do not hold records beyond 1972 and The Maritime and Coastguard Agency only hold records from 1999 till the present so would be interested in what kind of records you got up until 1994 and where?
Thanks
Hugh
I eventually spoke to the UK Ship Register (The Registry of Shipping and Seamen) which is in Cardiff (029 2044 8800) , and what the lady had was all the dates my uncle had sat exams, ie 2nd mate, 1st mate and so on. So she gave me the following dates - 1958, 1960, 1988 and 1994. In 1988 and 1994, that was just to revalidate his certificates. By 1997/8 my uncle was in the Seamans Rest Mission in London.
She did say that was just for officers though, you will know better than I do Hugh, but I took that to mean Captain, 1st, 2nd, I am not even sure if there is a 3rd Mate, but that sort of thing.
Now, she also gave me his Discharge which was 599950, I then asked her which date he left the Merchant Navy (as such) but she didn't know, so I don't know what that Discharge number means.
The lady I spoke to who I have to tell you went out her way for me, usually deals with medals for Merchant Navy service personnell, so it was really good of her.
I do hope that helps anyone trying to find out information, basically if you have sat exams, they will have you on file. I will say though, you might learn something you wish you hadn't, so be prepared for that !
Once again Hugh, thank you for pointing me in the right direction,
Kindest regards,
Valerie x
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31st March 2017, 08:23 AM
#15
Re: Hello
You know Valerie, it is so refreshing that ladies like you, and some others (male and female), keep us informed of what is going on, so many don't, our volunteers both male and female bend over backwards to help some and we never hear from them again. Believe me your messages are appreciated by all, even though we personally may not have contributed, but we thank you from the bottom of our hearts on behalf of those who have
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31st March 2017, 09:49 AM
#16
Re: Hello
Originally Posted by
Ivan Cloherty
You know Valerie, it is so refreshing that ladies like you, and some others (male and female), keep us informed of what is going on, so many don't, our volunteers both male and female bend over backwards to help some and we never hear from them again. Believe me your messages are appreciated by all, even though we personally may not have contributed, but we thank you from the bottom of our hearts on behalf of those who have
Thank you so much Ivan.
I really appreciate all the help that has been given to me by members of this forum and the other agencies I contacted. It just dawned on me that it might not seem relevant to some people why I would find it important where my uncle sat his exams and revalidated his papers, but my family had no idea where he was from 1973 until 1998. So those dates and places I was given, helped me place where my uncle was at those particular times, so just to explain that !
I have to confess something though, before I found this forum, I googled "Merchant Navy UK" because I thought if anybody will have records, they will. As hard as I tried, I could not find The Merchant Navy so I ended up phoning The Merchant Navy association, where this gentleman told me The Merchant Navy doesn't exist, I said to him, I beg to differ, my father, uncle and cousin all served in it !! I felt really stupid when he explained that any Ship not under the Armed Forces falls under the Merchant Navy !! No wonder I was having trouble finding them, dear me !! It makes complete sense now, but I felt a right idiot !!
I know how soul destroying it can be trying to find information about a family member, I have been trying to trace my cousin since my uncle died in 2012, to inform him of his father's death, however he is half Japanese and I think still lives in Japan, I have got nowhere though.
So if any of the information I have posted has helped somebody, that makes everything worthwhile.
Thank you again Ivan, and everybody else that has helped me, it is really appreciated.
Valerie x
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31st March 2017, 10:10 AM
#17
Re: Hello
Valerie, I would like to echo what Ivan has posted. Your generosity is so welcome and reflects your nature. I noticed your uncle was at Towers Hamlet. My father was born at the hospital there in 1897.
Every good wish to you and to your research.
Richard
Our Ship was our Home
Our Shipmates our Family
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31st March 2017, 10:23 AM
#18
Re: Hello
Thank you very much Richard,
My uncle was in East India Dock Road, which falls under Tower Hamlets right enough. Very near Canary Wharf, it seemed a nice area the last time I was there but that was before the Olympics in London, so things might have changed slighty there.
Thank you again Richard,
Valerie x
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31st March 2017, 10:42 AM
#19
Re: Hello
#14..Valerie I answered this post earlier saying your Uncle was the same age as myself, see you have the years he presented himself for examination which are also similar to mine being 1957, 1960, and 1963. What mercantile office or what ports did he do this in. They would have given you this information also. As regarding the upgrading of certificates, this was another buerocratic rule brought out no doubt with the good auspices of the EU, that if within any period of 5 years you didn't have at least 2 years seatime then you had to do a course called an upgrade of knowledge, a master of a ship didn't have to have a discharge in their book, but because of this most of us used to give ourselves one as proof that we had the required seatime in, saved going back to the shipowner and asking, and probably getting shanghaied at the same time. The upgrading of certificates could also have covered a term where he did various upgrades in communications, or courses on new Radar technology. Which suggests that he had maybe been away from the sea, or could have been working on foreign flag vessels where his movements were nigh on untraceable unless you knew his employers. Best regards JWS
Last edited by j.sabourn; 31st March 2017 at 11:01 AM.
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31st March 2017, 12:17 PM
#20
Re: Hello
Originally Posted by
j.sabourn
#14..Valerie I answered this post earlier saying your Uncle was the same age as myself, see you have the years he presented himself for examination which are also similar to mine being 1957, 1960, and 1963. What mercantile office or what ports did he do this in. They would have given you this information also. As regarding the upgrading of certificates, this was another buerocratic rule brought out no doubt with the good auspices of the EU, that if within any period of 5 years you didn't have at least 2 years seatime then you had to do a course called an upgrade of knowledge, a master of a ship didn't have to have a discharge in their book, but because of this most of us used to give ourselves one as proof that we had the required seatime in, saved going back to the shipowner and asking, and probably getting shanghaied at the same time. The upgrading of certificates could also have covered a term where he did various upgrades in communications, or courses on new Radar technology. Which suggests that he had maybe been away from the sea, or could have been working on foreign flag vessels where his movements were nigh on untraceable unless you knew his employers. Best regards JWS
This is where it gets difficult for me in a sense. 1958 - Aberdeen, 1960/1988 and 1994 - Leith. What the lady told me made no sense to me at all, however I am in touch with a friend of Sandy's (my uncle) who explained it. There is no record of him sitting a Masters exam in Britain, which meant he could not have been a Captain on a British ship. I swear to you, when I met my uncle for the first time (I was 9) he was the Captain of the MV Jollity (Cargo) and from memory, he was the only British person on his ship, at least his First and Second Mate were Malaysian. When she said that I started to question my sanity to be honest, because when my mum sent letters, it was to Captain A.C Walker, and that is what he wrote in the sender part at the back of the envelope.
His friend, bless him explained it just meant he had sat the Masters Exam under a foreign flag. The only thing I know for a fact is, he was based in Hong Kong, as for his employers, I cannot remember who they were, or what the shipping line was. The lady did say to me that he could have been working onshore, but it would have to have been in a job recognised by the UK Ship Register.
So, what that information told me was, between 1973 and 1998, he had been in this country (Britain) at the very least twice. I know in 1994 he was well enough to do whatever he did with his documents in Leith. And by 1997 he was in Hong Kong, because that is where the manager of the Seamans Mission retrieved him from.
The upsetting part of finding this out for me is, he made no attempt to contact us (his family) in either 1988 or 1994. My mum lived at the same address for the majority of her life, it was actually the same house my Uncle and mum grew up in, so it's not as if he lost the address ! By the time (as I said before) I saw him in 1998, he had alzheimer's, so I couldn't really get a lot of sense out of him about what had happened to him.
My Uncle's friend who was also in The Merchant Navy, they joined up at the same time is endeavouring to contact mutual friends, so I will see what comes of that.
It might be worth contacting Leith though to see what information they have, so thank you for that, and I will keep you updated.
Valerie x
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