What status a lifeboat crew ? [RNLI]

[Trampshipman]

A topic discussed on another forum was along the lines of seafaring status, ie:- professional, amateur, recreational, etc.
It was generally agreed that any one actually serving at sea and earning a living or getting paid for it [even if for example as just a galley boy] could rightly regard themselves as professional or ex professional seafarers. Others, such as unpaid yachtsmen, small boat enthusiasts, hobbyists etc etc, would be regarded as amateurs, or recreational seafarers etc. This despite the fact that many yachtsmen and the like are actually very skilled seamen with a lot of seatime.
Lifeboat crews have just popped into my mind. As far as I am aware the only member of a lifeboat crew who actually gets paid for the job is the cox`n. and the rest are regarded as `volunteers`. Am I right on this ?
Now, there`s just no way that lifeboat crews can be regarded as amateurs, nor hobbyists, nor recreational seafarers etc. This particular`service` has produced throughout many years numerous examples of lives lost in trying to help others, outstanding heroism and absolutely incredible feats of seamanship. `Heroes all` !
If they cannot be truly classed `professionals` because crewing a lifeboat is not actually their profession, then what actual `status` as seafarers can we accord to these fine people ? I`ve wracked my brains on this one and I just cannot think of a fitting `slot` for these fine people, status wise` that is. To regard them just as seamen or maybe `vocational` seafarers, does not do them justice.
Anyone got any ideas ?

Regards,
Ken.

Note ! Posted on other forums.

[jimmys]

I think most of them used to be fishermen and the lifeboat was an extra. The fisherman were professional seafarers.
With the run down of the fishing I do not know what percentage of the crews are now fishermen. Probably pretty small.

regards
jimmy

[robpage]

[SIZE="6"]I thought that the Coxwain and IF there was an engineer in the station they were paid a retainer , the rest used to get about £10 a call out , so I don't think anyone ever did it for the money . What surprised me about thirty years ago is that the " Management " in poole were on a decent salary , equivalent to a second Engineer's wages on a Ferry at least .but they were all retired naval personnel , Captains , Admirals of various ranks and such like , whose pensions were better than the salary , but they still took the wages , I found that disappointing . What they drew in a year then would have paid for a new lifeboat . But I suppose that with some folks Charity begins at home !!!!

[Keith at Tregenna]

Very Professional with an amateur status

The men and women of the Lifeboat crews are usually volunteer’s, they willingly give up their free time to attend regular training sessions, and to be available at any time of day and night, 365 days a year, to help others.

In their own way, they are all Heroes.

Very few crew members may be marine professionals, but what they share is a commitment and an enthusiasm to be part of a service that has been saving lives at sea for nearly 200 years.

They may be deemed ‘amateurs’, but the training they receive is second to none

There is generally a range of age and experience amongst the crew who are all committed to serving the RNLI to save lives at sea. The majority of crew may live within a couple of miles of the lifeboat station. A significant proportion of the crew may have a professional seafaring background although crew members who joined without any previous maritime experience along with every crew member undergoes a structured training programme, and trainee crew members need to attain a level of competence before being fully enrolled as active crew.

Most training is done at sea, with weekly exercises afloat, supplemented with monthly night exercises. There are also shore-based training sessions, including first-aid and radio courses provided by RNLI mobile units. All crew members should have the opportunity to attend an intensive five-day residential course based at the RNLI Lifeboat College in Poole. In addition to the ‘in house’ training, quarterly inspections take place, when the Lifeboat crew are required to demonstrate their skills under the watchful and critical eye of an RNLI Divisional Inspector.

Training is an on-going process for the duration of a Lifeboat crew member’s service. It is not the kind of job where you ever know it all!

In support of the crew and the station are the Station Officials who include the Lifeboat Operations Manager, Deputy Launching Authorities, Chairman, Honorary Medical Advisor, Honorary Treasurer, Lifeboat Press Officer and the Boathouse Manager.

I have nothing but praise for their professionalism and the way they conduct themselves.

K.

[jimmys]

If you look at the board of trustees of the RNLI I dont think things have changed much. I think RobPage comments are still to the fore. I have difficulty giving them a penny. I used to collect for them.

Regards
jimmy

[robpage]

Keith ,I applaud all those guys , they are priceless , but the board of trustees are well paid , and consists of retired senior RN officers , who all receive handsome pensions , the Full time staff , the part time crews , do a sterling job , but there seems to be a culture of the jobs for the boys club at the top . Whilst with Sealink we took a bunch of these guys on a jolly to the Channel Isles , one of them was telling me all about his fabulous barbarque , one of the guys in the workshops at Poole , had knocked up . Out of steel and time that my donations had bought . If there was a way to give to the crews and miss out the parasites , i will resume giving tomorrow

[Keith at Tregenna]

I have great relations with both the Courtmacsherry and Kinsale lifeboats and cannot fault the work that the lads and lasses of the entire service do. It does not occur much of late, (H+S etc) but was quite usual to go out on the lifeboat as a visiting party and pay respects, say a prayer, lay a wreath over or near a wreck. The Lusitania especially as she is so close to the Old Head. But even this kind of trip was planned within training or operations and not at extra expense.

Every crew member was a hundred percent a professional and themselves very cost concious and avid fund raisers. As said I am a true supporter and cannot pass an RLNI collection box without giving. To see these lifeboat crews sing with all heart "The Lifeboat song - Home from the Sea" at the harbour on Sea Sunday is most moving and to know how they not only feel deeply with the community when boats are lost, but actually support the relatives is truly wonderful.

I tend not to speak to much of things I do not know of and tend more to listen and learn. I know you talk more of the hierarchy and this is were I cannot comment as yet as I do not know. I do hear obviously of charities where a fraction raised would go to the cause and obviously this is what most do not expect. Trouble is most would be appauled if say Band Aid gave a fraction to the causes you thought you were giving to.

I do give monthly to several bodies and hope they all do the best with my money that is both meant and expected, but have never then checked or asked to see the books. I have many friends working for medical based charity bodies and they are not volunteers. This would be their job. None would attempt I believe to take the preverbial and some fixed costs would be neccessary prior to the balance going to the cause.

Again where would we be without the many that do so much good, shame that some, somwhere may seemingly abuse it. I guess we all have an element of trust when giving and hope that those we support will do the right thing. I would hope in the main that this is true. Glad this has been brought up and hope we all give thought in future to both giving and where it go's.

K.

[happy daze john in oz]

We have a similar situation here in Oz with the Country Fire Authority. Generaly the main personnel are paid but the majority of the members are volunteers. But like the life boat men they do a professional job and ask no favours in return. They may not be classified as professional but without them many a person would not be here today. Their services are mainly unrecognised until they are called. We are truly blessed as a society that there are such men and women out there who are prepared to put the safety of others before their own.

[Keith at Tregenna]

Back to the original poser amateurs or pro? Strange one really, never thought of life boat crews as anything but professional although have always known the RNLI to be a charity and most of those involved to be unpaid. Guess the unpaid bit leads somewhere to the amateur status.

However then an official description involves training: An amateur (French amateur "lover of", from Old French and ultimately from Latin amatorem nom. amator, "lover") is generally considered a person attached to a particular pursuit, study, or science, without pay and often without formal training.

Many or most were professional seamen, are professional in another field or may have been amateurs at induction / introduction but must be skilled, trained and up to standard prior to becoming fully involved.

Hence: "people pursuing amateur activities to professional standards" ?

But then is life saving to RNLI standards an amateur undertaking? Would a Master Mariner that volunteered to aid and assist be deemed an amateur? It is more a voluntary undertaking, that is conducted by what are extremely skilled people.
.
So as said an amateur receives little or irregular income from their activities, and thus differs from a professional who makes a living from the pursuit and typically has formal training and certifications in the domain. Fom this description they only meet half the criteria to be deemed amateurs and amateur is a general term for those that do conduct activities without pay.

But then when does an amateur become a pro ? is it just when monetary value comes into the frame? By chance anyone commencing anything initially may be an amateur, but may in time become fully experienced, if they do not chase the money, they could be more professional than the college boy that has the certificate and the cheque and is deemed a pro?

I was an amateur photographer, am no pro – but am pretty skilled now. Still an amateur because I do not make money from it? ALSO DO NOT SAVE LIVES .....................

Read somewhere of a chap asked for a donation, was busy and attempting to catch up with mates etc, apparently said: “I WILL HAVE TO DO IT LATER” Something never heard from Lifeboat crew.

So guess I look at a special breed of unpaid super professionals, Maybe we should ask them what they should be seen as: Bankers, Bakers, fishermen, MN and also voluntary crew.

“Angels of Mercy”


Link to Home from the Sea - The Lifeboat Song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoO4WfSMOpg

Also:

The Broughty Ferry life boat was called out to rescue a boat in trouble in the Firth of Tay December 1959.

The lifeboat capsized and was washed up on Carnoustie beach while the ship they were called out to help survived along with the crew....unlike those who had gone to their aid.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_og9T...eature=related


K.

[Trampshipman]

Hi Rob Page,
I have always been willing to contribute to RNLI funds, though really had no idea of the managements `rake off` which you describe. People of their means should not only feel embarrased but they should feel actual shame in accepting any monies at all from RNLI funds. I will probably` think twice`
about contributing in the future.

Regards, Ken.