Titanic the films.

[Neil Howard]

On a couple of occasions lazing in front of the TV , firstly in monochrome and then in colour I have watched the Titanic hit the berg. Having sailed the UK to Montreal route many times icebergs were a common sight. I was on a ship once that came acoss a massive berg at 30 west. So there I was stretched out watching the black and white version of the Titanic's two look-outs becoming aware that their ship was on a collision course to collide with a huge berg. The berg was on the stbd bow. The lookouts immediately screamed to the bridge that an iceberg was ahead. The officer of the watch gave an order to the helmsman. Can anybody recall what that order was to the helm and can anyone remember what action the helm took. The action moved on and without any recourse to replay the action taken by the bridge I just thought "No, I am mistaken". Some years later, stretched out in front of a colour tv the same film , "The Titanic" was showing. The inevitable happened and the two lookouts again screamed that an iceburg was ahead. The officer of the watch gave an order to the helm and the helm carried out the command.
Now, the original film and the new version must have used the same script information written down to make the film as both the original and the new film must be identical. But what if an error was made by the script writer in the first place. I believe the command given by the officer of the watch and that executed by the helm will not steer the Titanic to port. In later years there has been much controversy as to kicking the hull around the berg ( a la Costa Concordia). However, I believe that the script in both the new and old Titanic films has an error.
Can anyone help me with this??

[Doc Vernon]

He ordered 'Hard-a-Starboard', which was a Tiller Order directing the helmsman to turn the wheel to port (anti-clockwise) as far as it would go. The Titanic's steering gear then pushed the tiller toward the starboard side of the ship, swinging the rudder over to port and causing the vessel to turn to port. These actions are faithfully portrayed in the film of the disaster. Although frequently described as an error, the order was given and executed correctly— the vessel struck the iceberg anyway.Although this system seems confusing and contradictory today, to generations of sailors trained on sailing vessels with tiller steering it seemed perfectly logical and was understood by all seafarers. Only when new generations of sailors trained on ships with wheel-and-tiller steering came into the industry was the system replaced. http://www.titanic-whitestarships.com/what_happnd.htm

[j.sabourn]

Think the film director employed the wrong nautical advisor , that is if he employed one at all. Heard different arguments on this about port, starboard and larboard. Was not a very enlightening movie in the first place, and to see the band sitting down complacently playing their instruments brought a surreal effect to the whole first movie. Is only a film any action similar to actual events is purely coincidental and must surmise as usual was made to make money and to entertain the public. The people who did that night die were real people and died as most do scared s***less and in a panic. Its only in the movies that it is otherwise. Cheers John Sabourn

[robpage]

I never watched it , I already knew the ending

[Ivan Cloherty]

According to the builders records, the steering system installed was one of the new generation installed on a few ships in previous years, put the wheel to starboard the vessel turned to starboard and port to port. Although not proved the builders maintained that the OOWs were to blame as in the emergency their previous experience of sailing on vessels with the old system of wanting the vessel to turn to starboard the wheel went to port kicked in. In all probability this may be correct as to be even third officer on ships such as Titanic one would have need a large number of years and certificates under your belt to be appointed to such an exalted position and familiarality did kick in. Will we ever know despite all the official enquiries. So few films about the sea seem to employ competent nautical advisors and if they do, then they appear to be ignored, under the assumption that the general public will never know the difference.

[j.sabourn]

When they get round to making a film about the Costa Concordia, they will have plenty of advisors least of all the actual master. Wonder if his advice would correspond with his testimony at the inquest/Inquiry. Cheers John Sabourn.

[Captain Kong]

In the 50s in Canadian Pacific Empress liners, White Star and Cunard liners, when I was QM in the wheelhouse , all the Mates, first, second, third, fourth, and fifth, had Masters Certificates.
But I did hear at the time that in the old ships when turning to port the wheel was put over to starboard because of the gearing in the tiller flat.
If the TITANIC had turned to starboard he may have hit the ice berg head on and just the fore peak to the Collision bulkhead would only have been flooded and the ship and people would have survived.
Many ships survived the head on collision.
On the Empress of France we hit an ice berg, a very small one and the Starboard bilge keel was sliced off.
I was hanging down under us and when we hit shallow water in the St Laurence it was dragging along the river bed, I couldnt steer and we had to anchor, get divers down with cutting gear and then we lifted it up on the fore deck, It was lashed down there along the starboard rails and when I left her it was still there, She went to the breakers not long after.

[Red Lead Ted]

According to the builders records,public will never know the difference.

You are quite correct Ivan, It wasn't only the steering aboard Titanic that was a new concept the Whole Titanic project brought new concepts. The crew had to be trained to lower her life boats for one thing it was a system never used before I am talking handball of course. She had 4 funnels yet only needed 3 the fourth on her deck was basically an ornament, When she set sail on her maiden voyage no other ship in the world had, had 4 whistles the size of the Titanic,s, The U.S. Navy had nothing in their arsenal that could match her the day she sailed , As in size { Weight displacement } They had one Aircraft carrier that was about a foot longer than her. But going back to her steering I have researched Titanic quite a bit over the years and always,s find something new. It is well documented that during and after her sea trials she was a nightmare for answering the helm and had quite a few near misses while she sailed around the land before her maiden voyage, Hence of course the conspiracy theory between Titanic and Olympic being switched we can leave that for another day, But anyone who goes with the notion that there was a switch just take a look at Titanic,s passenger list on her maiden voyage its enough to blow any conspiracy theory out of the water for me. Terry.

[Doc Vernon]

On this Titanic subject thought that this following site may hold some interest to some here!
I really liked looking at all the Plans etc!
Cheers Click on the Tech Features and CAD Plans also the discussion Forums are interesting! http://titanic-model.com/dc/dcboard....g_id=&page=206

[happy daze john in oz]

Like so many other maratimne disasters the whole story and truth may never be known. We can often only surmise what may have occured, so many different parts of the ship from where no one survived. Those thta did may give opinions as to what occured but their distress may have been such that they never fully recovered to a point where they distinguish fact from fiction.
All we can hope for is that man learns from such disasters and improves in an effort to reduce risk.
However as we know from events of January last year some men may never learn.