HOW OLD?

[happy daze john in oz]

With the ball and chain back from her visit to the outlaws in London she brought the usual array of photographs.
One was of a pub in the Camden Town area by the name of 'The Harp' There are a group who consider this to be the oldest pub in London, but it has been proven to be the second oldest.
What is the oldest I wonder. Is it 'The prospect of Whitby' as many think or is it the one in the City where a Hot Cross bun is nailed to the celling every Good Friday. This has been going on for well over 100 years, it began when the son of the owner was lost at sea. Any one have any ideas on this?

[Ivan Cloherty]

There is one in the City of London, near Liverpool Street Station which I used to frequent in my Broking days nicknamed "Dirty Dicks" for the life of me cannot remember its real name but was built prior to and survived the great fire of London. Had many a drink in the Prospect of Whitby, the only pub that would let us cadets run up a tab until next time we were in London because they knew we were on slave wages. Always managed to settle mine before we sailed, which left me short for the next four months ! always keeping enough in the kitty to draw USDollars in Panama ready for our trips ashore in Peru and Chile with a few dollars and pocketfuls of "Yardleys" soap. So instead of filling those good catholic girls "souls with hope" we filled their "Holes with soap"

[Lou Barron]

When the wife and i was on a visit to the UK a ex pow mate of mine took us for a tour round the district of Hemel Hempstead and St Albans and into a pub that had a sign saying it was the oldest pub in the UK i think cannot think of the name but it had a very low ceiling wth wooden beams i know that a alot of the country pubs had low ceilings i have a photo somewhere of it ???

[Roger Dyer]

Hi Lou,

I think the pub you refer to in St.Albans is ' Ye Olde Fighting Cocks', which, the Guinness Book of Records describes as the oldest pub in England. Apparently, it's been going since the XI Century ( with some claim as early as the VIII Century). I've had a look on Google and it does seem that there are many pubs in England making the same claim to fame. In Nottingham alone, there are three, namely 'Ye Olde Trip to Jerusalem'(1189), 'The Salutation Inn' (1240) and 'The Bell' (1437). I find it all a bit confusing. If the dates in parentheses are to be believed then, surely, it's a 'no contest'. Other pubs with claim include the 'Eagle and Child' (947) at Stow-on-the-Wold and 'Ye Olde Cheshire Cheese' in Fleet Street, London. As one researcher points out, when making such claims, are they referring to the pub with the longest continual licence ?, the longest in the same building (or part thereof) ? or, perhaps, the
longest at that particular site (even though the original building has long gone).

I confess, living here in Oz, I still miss the atmosphere that is peculiar to English pubs, but as long as they 'pull' a good pint (or schooner) who cares ?. There are many pubs in Oz (as I'm sure there are in NZ) which attempt to replicate an English pub, but not always with great success. Not far from where I live, there is one called 'The Cricketer's Arms', which tries, but it's got a corrugated tin roof for heaven's sake. You sit there sucking on a Tetley's, half expecting Ned Kelly to come through the door at any minute (with inverted coal-scuttle on his head). I'm afraid it doesn't quite do it for me and besides, the beer is too bl---y expensive.

Hope you're keepin well, mate.

...............Roger

[Keith at Tregenna]

Wow what a topic, this could run on and on ?

The Royal Standard of England, Beaconsfield:

With a strong claim to being one of the oldest pubs in Britain, The Royal Standard of England in Buckinghamshire is, in the words of The Telegraph, "a proper pub".

Sitting by the fire in the evening drinking local ale and eating mutton pie, you get the wonderful impression that you’re doing exactly the same as the first punters did when the pub opened 900 years ago. Best of all, you can dine in the room where King Charles II used to entertain his mistresses. A gem of a place.

The Royal Standard of England, Forty Green, Beaconsfield, Buckinghamshire, HP9 1XT

Enticed to the area by an ex,this was the first pub of note and well remembered: But terminology needs respect to the question ?

There are many claims to fame and categories: Pub, Inn, Bar, Boozer, Hotel etc, then the case of olden days Lounge, smoke room: seems the fag ban is not that new, just no spitoons now ? Public, Corner etc: The names are fascinating if fair weathered: The Dew Drop Inn etc.

Always told by annual Northern visitors their local was called the Cock in hand, never followed up but must, cockerel I took it, before I get censored ?

Many London pubs were lost to Great Fire ? and though old and historic are not contenders ? Peeps.

Dirty Dick's is a fave.

I will add much and more from my time and beyond:

K.

[Lou Barron]

Yes Roger that was the name and the beer taste beer just as old

[happy daze john in oz]

Roger, if you go to Canberra and then to Cockington Green you will find a replica English pub, it is one of the best replicas I have seen. We have one not far from where I live now, GameKeepers Secret and well equiped to look very similar to an old English pub. But I agree they do not compare with reality, I know as I owned two in Kent in UK.

[Keith Tindell]

think its quite hard to get a pub in UK which has the charm of yesteryear, most now can only survive by serving food, and consequently become close to dining only. There are still a few that make it, and i think a log fire (real) dart board, stools at the bar, and above all local people is what makes one, good beer is also part of it, and good old bitter, not just lager and fancy foreign stuff, regards KT

[Captain Kong]

One Pub I still go to in Bolton was built in 1128, `Ye Olde Man And Scythe.`modernised in 1215. Lord Derby of Liverpool spent his last night there before he was Executed by beheading the next morning, His chair is still there and is reputed to be haunted by him.
.
The oldest pub in Wellington NZ is I think the `The Thistle`opened in 1840. last time down there I said it was my first visit for 50 years, The boss put me on free beer all afternoon. and gave me a Cap.
.
Cheers
Brian.

[John Albert Evans]

Always told by annual Northern visitors their local was called the Cock in hand, never followed up but must, cockerel I took it, before I get censored ?

Here you go Keith.

cock in hand.jpg

John