It was not my intention to bring religion into this thread but at the same time this thread began with one having to have an open mind like most other ideas to fully understand differing concepts and thoughts. Unfourtunatly this practice is frowned upon when religion is bought into the conversation simply because nearly every one of them is a closed book on any discussion unlike the thread that has been started but both need to be looked at with an open mind. Myself I consider a very religious person that has never been able to embrace the teachings of any of them. What converted me to religion was when I went to sea and doing lookout on the bow and relising that there was more meaning towards life than we had been taught and it was stirctily between whatever and the person and no other bugger. All those ex seaman that experienced that two hour tranquile time with just yourself and the universe will understand fully I am sure. That my dear friends is something that can not ever be taught in a church.