The Police State ?

[Keith at Tregenna]

RE: Those who fail to learn from history are certain to make the same mistakes in the future.

Seems like little alters:

On this day, 11 June 1919, racist rioting broke out in Cardiff, Wales, when white, mostly ex-servicemen attacked local residents of Afro-Caribbean, Somali and Yemeni descent.

Experiencing considerable hardship after the end of World War I, many ex-servicemen were in dire financial straits, and had been encouraged by racist media, as well as some unions, to see workers of colour as having taken some of "their" jobs and housing.

Tensions erupted on June 11 after a confrontation between a group of Black and white men in the Butetown area of area of the city escalated. Mobs of whites then attacked houses where Black and Arab workers lived, smashing windows, wrecking interiors and throwing furniture into the street. People of colour then began to defend themselves, boarding themselves inside their homes and arming themselves with stones and rocks.

One man, a ship's fireman called Mohammed Abdullah was attacked and soon died in hospital with a fractured skull. By the time the disturbances ended three days later, three other men were dead, although it is unclear if one of those deaths was related to the riots as such.

The riots in Cardiff were just one of several such incidents around Britain in 1919. Other racist mob attacks on African, Chinese, South Asian, Afro-Caribbean and Arab workers – usually seamen – also broke out in cities like London, Glasgow, Newport, Liverpool, Salford, South Shields, Barry and Hull. Shamefully, in some cases the violence was egged on by union leaders like Manny Shinwell, later a Labour MP, who demanded "action" against Black sailors on the morning of an attack on sailors from Sierra Leone in Glasgow earlier that year.

[Paul Johnson]

H i Keith,
Thankyou for that, I find this ongoing discussion very interesting, with varied views and opinions. The 'right' are not the only exponents of racist and prejudiced thoughts and actions, think of the British Labour party with elements within champions of anti-semitism, and I had speak as a member of the Labour party. Any expression of racism or prejudice disgust me.

Many of the contributors to this thread have mentioned that some of the statues that have been, or are planned to be, pulled down are of people that in later life financially sponsored cities, towns and seats of learning, A good example is that of Cecil Rhodes; Rhodes wanted to subjugate the whole of Africa within the British Empire, and as regards he Rhodes scholarship, this was initially targeted at American students, because he believed that America could be 'persuaded' to be, once again, part of that Empire.

So are we saying that after a certain amount of time an individuals past imperialism and racism can be discounted? May I posit this? If Hitler, Mussolini, Franco and Stalin, to name a few, had allocated funds for an educational or community foundation, would we be happy to have a statue of that person displayed now? After all, that is 60 to 75 years ago!

Cheers, Paul.

[Keith at Tregenna]

French city adds info plaques to slave trader street names.

The UK once led the world in much. Now we can learn more from elsewhere:

As statues of slave traders and colonial figures tumble worldwide in a wave of anger against racism, Bordeaux wants to inform the public with a different tactic.

Streets named after slave traders in the southwestern French city, known for its red wine but also one with a colonial past, are getting additional information plaques put up but will not be renamed, a local official said.

Bordeaux was France's second largest slave port, and prospered off the lucrative trade, deporting 150,000 African slaves to the Americas from 1672 to 1837 and providing Europe with goods such as cocoa, sugar and cotton.

The city's colonial past has left its mark on France’s ninth largest city and five streets are named after slave traders.

https://www.france24.com/en/20200611...FKWT7Tc&ref=fb

From this week, their names will remain on the distinctive blue street signs but will be accompanied by an additional plaque explaining the background.

[Paul Johnson]

Hi Keith,
Such an innovative idea should be applauded and copied, thereby retaining the historical concept as well as enlightening people in the contemporary world. History is not only about dates and battles!
Cheers, Paul.

[Captain Kong]

We are going to end up in a sterile world. with no history, Today is built on yesterdays History.
Are we now going to Burn every History book, every film of the past. Every painting in the art galleries????? A statue is only a reminder of what certain characters did which influenced certain events in history.
So what is the problem???
If we know that things were bad yesterday we can improve it today.
So again , what is the problem???
Again, why are people complaining about black peoples treatment by certain white people,
No one has complained about the large scale taking of Slaves from India, East Africa to Arabia. for a far longer time and probably treated far worse.
That Trade was stopped by the British.
Why no crowds protesting out side the Saudi Embassy???

The Egyptians were well know for their Slaves, who built the Pyramids. pull them down??? why no protests at the Egyptian Embassy???

Many other countries had slaves. Why no Protests there???
Many African countries had Slaves.
The Coastal tribes of West Africa are also to blame. No protests there. why???
They went and captured the Inland tribes and sold them to the ships.
How many British Sailors Died working on those Ships??
anyone know?? does anyone care???? I doubt it.
Beware the Bight of Benin, many white men go in, very few come out..
was a popular saying. The Sailors dying from Malaria, Yellow Fever, Black Water Fever, Cholera, Typhoid etc, etc.
No one cares about the poor Seafarers, they did not profit from the Trade, they were just Sailors doing a sailors job.
Many British people ended up as slaves throughout history, but we do not go around protesting, It is History, accept it happened, and learn from it,

The whole lot of these protests are a load of rubbish caused by trouble makers.
Learn from the past, if there are no reminders then everyone will forget it ever happened, then it could all start again.
Brian

[Keith at Tregenna]

HistoryPoints.org delivers Welsh history to your mobile, on the spot!

Look out for our QR codes on windows, fences, doors, walls, gateposts and noticeboards at more than 1,500 places across Wales. Simply scan the codes with your smartphone or tablet to read a concise history of the object in front of you.

https://historypoints.org/

https://historypoints.org/index.php?...morial-cardiff

K.

[Paul Johnson]

Hi Brian,
Thankyou for this post, good to speak to you. Much of what you say I would be in agreement, history is an integral part of who we are, but I am sure you remember that old adage that history is written by the victors rather than the vanquished.

You say 'If we know that things were bad yesterday we can improve today', if only that was true, tell that to the family of the jogger who was shot in February by a Father and son who believed he resembled a burglar; they have only been charged SINCE the death of Floyd George.

You say that nobody is complaining of the large scale of Indian slaves! Please see my previous post; my contention is that ALL enslavement is wrong, black, white or whatever. Yes, of course black people enslaved others, that did not give carte blanche for white people to do the same.

As to nobody protesting outside the Saudi embassy, I think you will find many are, as they did outside the South African embassy during Apartheid, another form of slavery.

Thank you once again for your post, and whilst in agreement in much of what you say there are obvious differences, and in my humble way may I reference Voltaire? 'I disapprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it', and I sincerely mean that Brian.
Cheers,Paul.

[Rodney Mills]

Times have changed in the "Deep South". I have lived in South Carolina for 24 years, and vacationed in Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, Louisiana, and the rest.

I visited Galveston and New Orleans when I was in the Merch 1953-58, then it was segregated. Today and for the 24 years I've lived in the South it's not.

The apartment complex I live in is roughly occupied along the South Carolina racial lines, 40% black, 60% white and others. My next door neighbors are two black females and white female, (Room mates). The white lady is a bit standoffish, the two blacks, Sandra and Mary are charming.

The rest of the building is occupied the same. We meet going in and out, and it's pleasant greetings, no big deal.

I'm staying in my apartment, not only because of the virus, but because I'm grieving over the loss of my beloved wife. I do not seek company.

Back to the South and the U.S. in general. That is not to say there isn't changes needed, there are, and changes are coming daily now.

The recent actions of the police have outraged most people here and changes are being demanded.

The removal of the Confederate flag was assumed to outrage people (Whites I assume) of the "Deep South". Well the most popular sport item in the South is NASCAR, auto races. And the confederate flag was synonymous with NASCAR. Three days ago NASCAR announced no longer will the Confederate flag be allowed at any of NASCAR events.

Statues of Confederate Generals, and of Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States are being taken down. Some by State sanction, some by the people. I don't sanction these statues at all. After all if these generals had been better generals and won, we would no longer be the United States. They are not heroes of the U.S.A. they were heroes of States that wanted to leave and continue slavery and segregation.

There has been no outraged demonstration against these changes, the outrage has been against seeing a handcuffed man wedged under a car while a police officer kneeled on his neck for almost nine minutes and watching the man die on TV, protesting he couldn't breath and finally calling "Momma". His crime was accusation of passing a phoney $20 bill. Was it made by him? Did he get it from a friend and knowingly attempt to pass it? Or was it passed to him somehow and he unknowingly tried to passed it? That's what a trial would have proved had he not been killed. And three other officers stood by and said nothing, just watched. It has been said that one of the officers had only worked three shifts. A second officer not much longer. That is not an excuse that you are a "rookie", and don't know better. If I as a third assistant cook, watched a first assistant cook burning a roast, would I be expected to stand and watch it burn, or not say "Hey, the meats burning ain't you supposed to take it out?" It's a silly example I know compared to watching somebody die, but they should have at least said something if not done something.

This is not the first case like this, but it is the one that has finally caused national outrage and demands for change in attitudes and training of cops, though caused by a minority of officers, it must be stamped out, punished if it occurs to the full extent of the law, and not covered up by a code of silence and denial like it is and has been.

We are not all hot rod, tobacco chewing, moonshine makers and good old boys as Hollywood would have the South, and time has not stood still since visits to Southern ports for a couple of days way back when, I know, I did that then and I live in the South now.

Rodney

[Paul Johnson]

Hi Rodney,
Thankyou so much for this post, of course people from a defined geographical area should not be attainted with an adverse view, and I hope I have not done that. What I think we all forget is that instances of igregious and racist violence are from a small minority, unfortunately this small minority is in the main supported by the judiciary and the law enforcement.

Your example, the burning meat, is apt, I have mentioned before, 'who watches the watchers?'. The four police officers on duty were made up of two 'experienced' officers and two probationers, neither had been in the force longer than a month; it is a worrying thought that possibly officer Chauvin was doing what he did just to impress those two probationers, he was being the 'big' man.

May I offer my sincere condolences for your loss.
Cheers, Paul.

[Paul Johnson]

Hi Keith,
Once again you have come up with something that is apposite and telling, thanks.
Cheers, Paul.