Climate Change

Both UK main parties are promising to reduce or eliminate Co2.
Labour if elected will reduce CO2 emmissions to zero by 2022. Cement and concrete manufacture globally produce 4.8% of the Co2 emmissions. That haven't stated what will replace these products.
Both parties have stated that natural gas will be phased out and Fossil fuels in vehicles will be banned.
The obvious choice of replacement is electricity. Assuming it is electricity neither party has announced how they will fund the additional power required. The UK has barely sufficient capacity to cope with today's demands, wonder how they are going to get over that problem?
Vic

I did read Vic that another five nuclear power stations are to be built to supply the demand.

But the news today is somewhat odd, 11,000 scientists from 150 countries , that is an average of 73 each, have declared a climate emergency based on studies over the last 40 years.

Something odd there as there has been no mention of climate change or global warming in any major proposal before about 2005.
It was about then that Al Gore put forward his movie, 'An Inconvenient Truth'.

But of those 11,000 I doubt all will be positive about it and if it is as they claim a 40 year study then some of the scientists no would not be the same as at the start.
But only 40 years is hardly going to break any records, not even a blink in the life of the planet.
As one leading scientist said some time ago the scope of the research is not wide enough and does not take into account findings from many eons ago.

My wife and I on our first trip to Oz, met a couple who had just retired like us and were doing a six month trip around Oz too, we traveled together for a couple of weeks and stayed at the same camp grounds (we had a Mitzubishi camper van). We became good mates.

They bought a farm, a fruit farm, Avocado and lychees. We spent from a month to six weeks, for ten years on the farm and worked. No pay, just hooked up power and water to the house and camped.

This was just outside the town of Childers, near Bunderberg, Queensland.

We have, picked, packed, and shipped the fruit to Sydney. Pruned the trees after harvest and did every job possible on a farm. And it's bloody hard graft.

One year a Cyclone hit and dumped over a meter of rain which caused the dam to blow out and lose water. Which meant our mate had to buy water from Bunderberg. And there went his profit for the year.

He borrowed from the bank to repair the dam get and put in twenty acres of small crops, pumpkins, etc. for a quick crop for living money.

Next year there was a sever drought and the a breed in the parrot family called lorikeets couldn't get food in the bush and they discovered lychees just before harvest time. Except the didn't like them and they would just peck a hole then move to the next lychee. They are lovely birds and stay in pairs.

My mate went to the Department of Natural Resources for a permit to shoot them. He was given a special permit to kill 50. He said is that 50,000, and the indignant officer said No...Fifty only.

Both my mate and I love birds and Lorikeets are special. We would have to take turns with the 0.22 rifle killing the poor things burying them in the bush, and killing fifty more, heart breaking.

He borrowed more money from the bank to buy nets over the lychee bushes to no avail, he managed to save maybe 30% of the crop.

I can't remember what the disaster was the next year, but the bank turned him down for a loan and he had to sell-out at a loss and there went ten years of my mates lives and a divorce followed shortly

Who'd be a "cockie"? Ozzie slang for a farmer.

Rodney

Johno in Oz.

Just saw your remark about the farmer who had a wind turbine on his property and lost the rent money, but said "His mill's noise disturbed his family".

Either they build different ones in Oz or the farmer or news source was telling porkies about the noise. They are noiseless, I've been inside one, up to near the top in a two-man elevator, climbed up about a thirty foot ladder to the generator flat, stood on top of the generator and looked out on the top right beside the blades while they were operated by the wind.

I've previously added photos shot from a drone of my wife and I waving from the top, as I said we were standing on the generator itself, there is a slight vibration in one's feet and the softest hum sound as the innards of the generator revolves fed by the blades.

The only sound I heard was when my honorary-adopted son closed the steel door down near the ground.

Cheers, Rodney:cool:

Rodders, the noise here is more like a 'whoosh' as they spin and there have been numerous cases of people needing medical treatment because of it.

Have been reading two small booklets about the current situation.

An alternative theory to Anthropogenic Carbon Dioxide Causing significant changes to the worlds climate. By David. J. Pritash BBA EMBA

I found it neither supportive or negative, it shows both sides of the story but does not give a conclusive report in my opinion.

Second one, Seven Theories of Climate Change by Joseph L. Blast published via the Heartland Institute Illinois.

This covers Anthropgenic Global Warming, Bio-Thermostat, Cloud Formation and Albedo, Human Forcing Besides Greenhouse Gasses, Ocean Currents, Planetary Motion, Solar Variability.

The last three make far more sense to me than much of the other stuff put out by some scientists, it also comes up very differently to the articles put out by the various media sources. Many of which should be charged with plain lying according to this.

The warming of the Gulf stream has far greater effect on weather patterns than many understand, waters in the southern hemisphere warmed by underwater volcanic activity travel north. The amount of heat depends on the rate of activity, when it is high the southern oceans warm to the extent that here in Oz we get the El Nino effect, drought to those who do not understand that.

Warm waters then effect the waters of the northern hemisphere which in turn effects weather patterns there.

One item of interest is the earths center, after billions of years still molten and at times some of this molten lava boils to the surface in volcanic eruptions.
But this molten center also gives the planet some centrifugal force which keeps it on a steady axis and orbit.

In time the center will cool and solidify, this will effect the motion allowing the sun to draw it closer to it, eventually destroying the planet by burning it up.

But no worries lads, not in our time.

For your information

More Than 11,000 Scientists Confirm Earth is in a Climate Emergency
Nov 7, 2019

This week a group of more than 11,000 scientists from 153 countries, including the United States, issued a report that stated for the first time that Earth “clearly and unequivocally faces a climate emergency.” While scientists have previously produced data indicating global warming and climate change, this study confirms that human activity is playing a significant role in environmental impact and suggests specific policies that should be implemented to stabilize the situation:

Energy: Impose carbon fees to discourage using fossil fuels, end subsidies to fossil fuel companies, implement conservation practices and replace oil and gas with sustainable forms of energy.
Pollution: Limit pollutants such as methane, hydrofluorocarbons and soot to cut the short-term warming trend by 50% over the next few decades.
Nature: Stop land clearing, restore forests, grasslands and mangroves to help rein in CO2.
Food: Shift to a mostly plant-based diet, consume fewer animal products and reduce food waste.
Economy: Change economic dependence on carbon fuels and reduce the focus on growing the world's gross domestic product and pursuing wealth.
Population: Stabilize global population growth.

Life and environment are inextricably linked. From microscopic organisms that shelter within the rocks of the driest deserts, to the dense flora and fauna in the wettest of rainforests, through to humans in villages, towns and cities, life and environment inevitably co-evolve, each influencing, and depending on, the other. This report warns that there is no more time to debate policy; we must take action. We may only be able to mitigate some of the consequences of climate change and will still be affected by some of the consequences, but positive action will have significant, and life-saving impact.

For more information on the facts and the science supporting climate change, visit NASA’s climate change site. There are also some amazing before and after images of the effects of climate change on landscapes and the weather from around the globe. The SETI Institute’s Big Picture Science podcast has featured a couple of episodes on climate change; check out New Water Worlds, and On Thin Ice.

The Study itself is published in The American Institute of Bioscience’s journal Bioscience, and a link to it can be found here. Commentary on the study is available from the BBC and the Washington Post.

BBC
A global group of around 11,000 scientists have endorsed research that says the world is facing a climate emergency.
The study, based on 40 years of data on a range of measures, says governments are failing to address the crisis.
Without deep and lasting changes, the world is facing "untold human suffering" the study says.
The researchers say they have a moral obligation to warn of the scale of the threat.
'Regret' as US begins exit from UN climate accord
Quit 'coal addiction', UN boss warns Asia
Climate change 'making mountaineering riskier'
Released on the day that satellite data shows that last month was the warmest October on record, the new study says that simply measuring global surface temperatures is an inadequate way of capturing the real dangers of an overheating world.
So the authors include a range of data which they believe represents a "suite of graphical vital signs of climate change over the past 40 years".
These indicators include the growth of human and animal populations, per capita meat production, global tree cover loss, as well as fossil fuel consumption.

Some progress has been seen in some areas. For example, renewable energy has grown significantly, with consumption of wind and solar increasing 373% per decade - but it was still 28 times smaller than fossil fuel use in 2018.
Taken together, the researchers say most of their vital signs indicators are going in the wrong direction and add up to a climate emergency.
"An emergency means that if we do not act or respond to the impacts of climate change by reducing our carbon emissions, reducing our livestock production, reducing our land clearing and fossil fuel consumption, the impacts will likely be more severe than we've experienced to date," said lead author Dr Thomas Newsome, from the University of Sydney.
"That could mean there are areas on Earth that are not inhabitable by people."
How does this differ from other reports on climate change?
The study echoes many of the warnings that have been reported by scientists including the IPCC. The authors set out to present a clear and simple graphical picture of a broader ranger of indicators that can drive home to the public and to governments that the threat is serious while the response has been poor.

Where it differs is in showing that while things might be bad, they are not hopeless. The researchers show six areas in which immediate steps should be taken that could make a major difference.
These are:
Energy: Politicians should impose carbon fees high enough to discourage the use of fossil fuels, they should end subsidies to fossil fuel companies and implement massive conservation practices while also replacing oil and gas with renewables.
Short-lived pollutants: These include methane, hydrofluorocarbons and soot - the researchers say that limiting these has the potential to cut the short-term warming trend by 50% over the next few decades.
Nature: Stop land clearing, restore forests, grasslands and mangroves which would all help to sequester CO2.
Food: A big dietary shift is needed say researchers so that people eat mostly plants and consumer fewer animal products. Reducing food waste is also seen as critical.
Economy: Convert the economy's reliance on carbon fuels - and change away from growing the world's gross domestic product and pursuing affluence.
Population: The world needs to stabilise the global population which is growing by around 200,000 a day.
So who are the scientists who have endorsed the report?
Some 11,000 researchers of all types and varieties from 153 countries have endorsed the research


Washington Post
By
Andrew Freedman
November 5, 2019 at 10:18 a.m. EST

A new report by 11,258 scientists in 153 countries from a broad range of disciplines warns that the planet “clearly and unequivocally faces a climate emergency,” and provides six broad policy goals that must be met to address it.
The analysis is a stark departure from recent scientific assessments of global warming, such as those of the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, in that it does not couch its conclusions in the language of uncertainties, and it does prescribe policies.
The study, called the “World scientists’ warning of a climate emergency,” marks the first time a large group of scientists has formally come out in favor of labeling climate change an “emergency,” which the study notes is caused by many human trends that are together increasing greenhouse gas emissions.

The report, published Tuesday in the journal Bioscience, was spearheaded by the ecologists Bill Ripple and Christopher Wolf of Oregon State University, along with William Moomaw, a Tufts University climate scientist, and researchers in Australia and South Africa.

I guess we have to just agree to disagree, and let our grand kids see who's right. Us old f@#$s don't have to worry about it, I've dived the GBR, trecked in Nepal, climbed Ayers Rock, hiked in the jungle of Borneo, been there and done that...I know they can no longer climb Ayers Rock, but I wonder if the wonders of this magnificent world will be available for the future generations that follow me?

Rodney

Rodders, thanks for that one.

Yes we had it on our news, but three different channels all put their own spin on it.

Over 11,000, but was that a unanimous opinion, I think not there would be some who would disagree on aspects of the final report and the findings, but hey do not let a good story get in the way of the truth!!.

There have been three attempts at a carbon price in Europe, all have failed, mainly because no matter how much you charge for the credits nothing changes.
The companies that polute buy carbon credits for such things as the planting of trees, they then continue to use the same systems and pass on the cost of the credits to their customers.

As to a plant based diet, tell that to some Aussies and many in Asian countries, it will be hard to change them.
Then concern for the planet before commercial gains????????????????????????

I agree with some of the contents but also realize that it will be one hell of a task to convince so many to change.

Then we have the middle east countries, Iraq, Afghanistan and many others, still living little better than they did some 2,000 years ago, how do you change them?

The theory is fine, the practical is another story.

Climate change reaches Cooma? Two weeks ago the day being 32 degrees I thought at last summer has arrived so I changed into shorts, two days later we had rain and freezing winds; so back into Jeans, this went on for two days, then next we had clear sky's but 80 kilometer an hour winds; to dry up all that good rain, then last night, and remember this is Nov; snow, with the temp down to minus 2. I have three sets of clothing on hangers ready to change into, is this the future?
Cheers Des

Noiseless, your joking. All I have been within 1/2 mile of you could hear the noise as the blades revolved. Bloody unsightly things. Bob Brown who started the Green party in Australia and has led dozens of protests for climate change has now put in a submission to prevent the construction of wind turbines off N Tasmania. Doesn't want his view ruined.

Couple of missed points on the post by Rodders.

Methane, the scientists say we must reduce this as it is a 'Greenhouse' gas, just how do we do that?

Methane is produced by every mammal on this planet, every thing that decomposes creates Methane, turn the planet to dust and problem solved.

Hottest October day on record but they fail to say where.
Ten years ago we were told no more snow on the alps, since then the amount has increases each yhear with a record amount this year with a one day record dump included.
I do not see that mentioned any where.

The point here is that any one can cherry pick what they want to and use that to sustain their point of view.

It is not a simple open and close matter, the booklet mentioned regarding the seven theories shows that the sun, planetary significance and a few other issues have a far greater effect than man.