Draw your own conclusions !!!!

[alf corbyn]

how can the government justify all those admirals and captains for 19 ships. sack the lot of them!. cameron must be proud of the fact that he invented or caused to be invented; food banks. even in the second world war we didn't have them and we were on rations. he sends billions to other countries and over here the mentally ill and others are sent out onto the streets to survive and also kill people. our MP's are useless. it need the man in the street to stand up in the house of commons and tell the people what is happening.

[j.sabourn]

Years ago they used to go on half pay, anyone know when that was stopped. It would probably cost more to pension them off than to keep employed pushing papers around and other probable clerical work. I believe the Americans keep so much merchant tonnage in mothballs for emergencies such as troop carriers etc. its a pity the British government didn't budget to do something similar, they have the manpower but no vessels as such. It must be soul destroying to be a regular commissioned officer in the RN and have to fight for seatime. However every British Merchant seaman has been through the same process. So knows what it is like. Britannia no longer Rules the Waves. John Sabourn

[Hugh]

If my memory is correct I believe the conversion on the vessel I was there for the Trials before handing over to the Navy was renamed HMS Guardian or Sentinel or something similar. Cheers John Sabourn

I think it was 'SEAFORTH CHAMPION' that becaume HMS GUARDIAN and 'SEAFORTH WARRIOR' that becaume HMS SENTINEL. 'SEAFORTH SAGA' became HMS PROTECTOR.
'SEAFORTH CLANSMAN' as far as I know, did not go to the RN and was later renamed 'GRAY SEAL'.
Regards
Hugh

[vic mcclymont]

There care 126 ships in the Royal Navy. Of these 19 are major surface ships (destroyers and frigates), unfortunately this is the number that the press quote as being the size of the RN. It doesn't justify the number of gold braid that they have.

As an anecdote we were in Durban in the 70's and the old Ark Royal was on its paying off visit, old Nookie Nichols our chief looked across and said paint her funnel black with two red bands and we could run her with 7 engineers and two leckies.

[Hugh]

As an anecdote we were in Durban in the 70's and the old Ark Royal was on its paying off visit, old Nookie Nichols our chief looked across and said paint her funnel black with two red bands and we could run her with 7 engineers and two leckies.

With respect Vic, Mr Nichols and his 7 engineers and two leckies could run her I am sure of that, but not as a warship you wouldn't - Sorry.

Regards
Hugh

[robpage]

Seaforth Clansman is now St Barbara was

ZEALOUS
GRAY SEAL
SEAFORTH CLANSMAN

At present moored in Gdansk

Latest information http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/shi...mmsi=375666000

[vic mcclymont]

With respect Vic, Mr Nichols and his 7 engineers and two leckies could run her I am sure of that, but not as a warship you wouldn't - Sorry.

Regards
Hugh

HI Hugh, intention was not to run it as warship, reference to black funnel and two red bands was Clan Lines and run it under that company banner.
Vic

[Hugh]

Apologies Vic, I took a different meaning from your post. It is a fact that many MN people have said to me and still do say that they don't understand why a warship has such a large crew compared to say a vessel of similar size in the MN. The reasons to me are obvious but I get tired at times trying to explain it. My first ship was an aircraft carrier it had over 2,200 men onboard. As a minority ex-RN guy on here, I am perhaps a little over sensitive when it comes to speaking up on behalf of my old service.
Regards
Hugh

[Ivan Cloherty]

My first ship was an aircraft carrier it had over 2,200 men onboard. As a minority ex-RN guy on here, I am perhaps a little over sensitive when it comes to speaking up on behalf of my old service.
Regards
Hugh

Continue being sensitive Hugh and defend as is your right, afraid to say most of us Merchant men have no real understanding of all the specialist trades on RN ships as we have to muddle through as a jack of all trades on a commercial basis. Got my understanding of RN manning requirements during the Suez invasion when invited aboard various ships, some probably still overmanned at that time, but that was the National Service era, if I remember rightly. As far as I remember it took 5/6 men to attend and service one gun, now one man can operate 5/6 guns and now ships carry more 'techies' than outright seamen. We all have a role to play in life.

[j.sabourn]

Ivan , once again people fall back on the old fallacy of demanning as required on merchant ships now assuming that is all these ships require. Once again I come up with the remark that it is bulls##t, most of the tonnage is still of the old variety, and even if it wasn't they are still pushing safety to the extremes. During my time working with naval personnel in a purely civilian capacity, I found that they were all fully employed at all times no matter what position they held, maybe the naval officers appeared to me to have an easier time than most but they must have had jobs I was unaware of. The average merchant seaman groping around in the red lighting system of a ship at stations would have thought he was in a brothel those were my first thoughts on the first night on trials. The bofors guns require 3 of a crew on each, and as said one was manned by the cooks and the other by the marines. The electronic gadgetry most of it probably still under the Official Secrets Act would take a number of specialists to maintain. Boarding parties are often required and this is all manpower taken from different departments. I remember HMS Reclaim asking the mn Crew on the Seaforth Clansman to put a boarding party on a suspected Russian trawler as he was short of manpower. I sent 2 ABs over in a Zodiac, it turned out to be a Hull Trawler and the skipper chased them. However it could of been otherwise. The navy have a lot of irregular ships also and I as an independent observer would say they would lose our so called H & S regulators. I just thank God we do have a few warships left. Regards John Sabourn