Spitfires

[Tony Morcom]

Pos, Brian or Tony etc could suggest you upload them here, they may best suggest where or open a Aviation section :

I am sure that some members may well have an interest Keith and they would be able to contact Edmund. However we must not lose sight of the fact that this site is primarily dedicated to the Merchant Navy, the ships, the men and women, the history and every thing directly related to those. Regretfully it would be a mistake to diversify from our main objective to include other services. I am confident that there are similar sites for both the Army and Air Force to share their nostalgia.

[Roger Dyer]

Hi Tony,

I refer to your comments in post #15 of this thread in which you, as moderator, proffer the view that R.A.F. photography taken in various theatres of war during WWII is not suitable material for inclusion on this site. Whilst I understand the point you make regarding the prime purpose of the site, is it not also true that members are generally free to discuss a wide range of topics unrelated to the sea and ships and that there is provision for them to do so, providing they do not breach site rules.

To illustrate the point I make, during the past two years members have discussed cookery recipes, motor vehicle accidents, politics, buses, domestic pets, rock 'n' roll, caravanning, how to enter a cinema without paying and childhood memories, just to name a few. I thought the offer made by member, Edmund Crook, both kindly and thoughtful and, more importantly, something that may well have been of interest to older members (me for instance ).

Tony, mate, I believe you perform the duties of moderator superbly, but, as much as it galls me, I believe you are wrong about this. Whilst I accept your decision is final, I do hope you will reconsider. Whatever you may think, please don't take this as a personal attack upon your good self.

....................regards, Roger

[Captain Kong]

I do think that a lot of RAF planes flew to defend Convoys as far as their range could take them, many U-boats were sunk by the RAF whilst stalking convoys. Also Search and Rescue for ships saving many , many Seafarers lives, operated by the RAF. They did a superb job in war and in peace saving Seafarers, even to this day they are on call from Valley on Anglsey.
,
A recent example of the RAF,...........
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Prince William helps rescue two crew but five missing after sinking in Irish SeaRoyal RAF man co-pilots helicopter that winched pair to safety after cargo ship wrecked by high winds off coast of north Wales

guardian.co.uk, Sunday 27 November 2011 14.25 GMT
A Sea King helicopter co-piloted by Prince William was sent to the scene and helped rescue two sailors. Photograph: Murdo Macleod for the Guardian
Five crew from a cargo ship are feared dead after a huge wave snapped the vessel's hull in stormy seas off the coast of north Wales. Two men were rescued by an RAF helicopter co-piloted by Prince William.

The 81-metre Swanland sank almost immediately 10 miles west of the Llyn peninsula following a distress call at 2am on Sunday.

The body of one crew member has been recovered and there were fears for the fate of the five others as night fell.

While some of them were believed to be wearing survival suits, given sea temperatures of around 13C they would not be expected to survive in the water beyond six hours, the coastguard said.

Location of helicopter rescue off north coast of Wales. Two other crew members were rescued from the water by an RAF Sea King helicopter dispatched from RAF Valley in nearby Anglesey. The men were taken to hospital in Bangor.

A Ministry of Defence spokesman explained the role played by Prince William, who is based at RAF Valley as a flight lieutenant trained in search and rescue work. He said. "It was a four-man crew – captain, co-pilot, radar operator and winchman – and he was the co-pilot. The weather conditions were described as extremely bad, with poor visibility and strong winds."

The two rescued sailors said the ship had sunk quickly in stormy weather of gale force eight and above.

Ray Carson, the watch manager at Holyhead coastguard, said: "One of the survivors said that there were five of them on deck at the time, wearing survival suits because of the conditions, and there were three either below or within the accommodation.

"He described a huge wave rolling the ship, and she broke her back. It was a catastrophic failure, and she obviously sank very quickly after that."

Carson said: "The two men recovered from the water were brought here before going to the hospital. I think they are OK and are just suffering from shock.

He said the rescue undertaken by the Sea King crew would have involved considerable skill: "It would be quite a feat given the conditions. As well as keeping a helicopter stable in the winds they had to winch someone down to a liferaft moving around in the water."

Prince William spent 19 months training as a search and rescue pilot, qualifying in September last year.

Two other cargo vessels in the area at the time played a key role in saving the two sailors. A tanker, the Bro Gazelle, was very close to the Swanland when it sank and helped provide shelter and light before the helicopters and lifeboats arrived. Another vessel, the Monsoon, spent the night searching for survivors.

The search, now covering 300 square miles, has been expanded to include four helicopters, from both RAF bases and the Dublin coastguard, as well as the Pwllheli and Porth Dinllaen all-weather lifeboats and two inshore lifeboats.

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./
So we never know when we will need the RAF if we are at sea.
Cheers
Brian.

[John Arton]

This is going off thread and is certainly meant not to critise anyone on this site for any of their views.
but
We must not forget the fantastic work that the Air/Sea rescue helicopter pilots of the RAF do. I have seen close up what skills they have in both real emergiences in absolutley foul weather in the English Channel rescueing sailors off a stricken Russian lumber ship and also meeting them when they were carrying out training missions off Anglesey when they would land on board us, have a chat, collect a bottle of thanks from us then off they would go to jump in the oggy oggy in order for them to practise rescue.
We have a section devoted to our friends in the Navy and RFA so I personally would have no qualms seeing a forum devoted to the R.A.F. and matters airborne. I know I have sailed with a number of guys who have relantions in the Air Force of their countries and believe there is mutal respect between them and us mariners. Having such a forum would, I think, not detract in anyway from the fact that this site is devoted to all matters concerning the sea.
Just my thoughts.
rgds
JA

[Captain Kong]

I did some Search and Rescue with Court Helicopters from out of Cape Town many years ago, Not a job for the faint hearted, very scary at times. So I have a lot of admiration for the RAF SAR.
Cheers
Brian.

[Tony Morcom]

Whatever you may think, please don't take this as a personal attack upon your good self.

....................regards, Roger

Not all Roger and I take your point and those others have expressed on board. My opinion at the time I made the post was that it was a mistake to dilute the site by trying to add all the services. However with hindsight maybe my opinion was misguided especially as of course SAR was and is integrally connected to ships and the sea. As for creating a new forum dedicated to the RAF, I will certainly put it to Brian for approval.

Thank you for bringing the subject back to my attention. Unfortunately errors of judgement based on what is seen and understood at the time do occur and it appears that I was wrong in this case to jump the gun without full consideration.

[Keith at Tregenna]

Hence, rather than similar to the: For our Royal Navy Friends and the RFA an Aviation corner as opposed to: For our RAF Friends etc. Personally know little of the Merchant Air Service and more ?

EG: Apparently, A wartime magazine, showed a BOAC Mosquito and the caption included the following: "The de Havilland Mosquito .... is now being used by the corporation as a fast air carrier The picture shows one of our Mosquitoes about to take off for a night journey".

But on the reverse is part of an article that reads: Captain R C Parker and Mr P S Edwards took part in a broadcast with Mr Macdonald Hastings in the BBBC Forces programme on 16th August. It was recorded and rebroadcast on 19th August. The programme was in the Radio Reconnaissance series and was entitled "Britain's Merchant Air Service".

Interested,

K.

[Ivan Cloherty]

Whilst I can see where you may be coming from, why not keep this site dedicated to ships, boats , barges and seamen of all descriptions.

Using your logic above anything that was transported on a ship has a valid reason to be on this site, bicycles, cars, trucks, combs. hairbrushes, sanitary towels, condoms, surgical equipment etc etc etc etc I doubt seriously if this site was created so that anything that was "Carried" on a ship gave it relevance to be on this site.

We have enough variety of ships to discuss, tramps, cargo liners, passenger liners, oil tankers, chemical tankers, wine tankers, ore carriers, survey ships, drill ships, supply boats, tugs, buoy tenders, coasters, trawlers, netters (and nutters) plus the RFA and RN and all the varied personnel who served upon them.

There is no need to turn this site into Train Spotting, or plane spotting, or bus spotting or hairbrush spotting site, they all have their own dedicated sites well served by people interested in those subjects. Naturally the aforementioned objects of transport and femine hygiene will come up in our written conversations but we don't need a dedicated Forum for them on what is essentially a shipping and ship site where seamen, their family and friends can trace old friends and tell of their experiences and look back on a life they loved that gave them both heartache and pleasure.

Well those are my thoughts for what they are worth.

[Tony Wilding]

i for one appreciate your replies, Spitfires actually did have a Maratime connection, they were called Seafires when used on Aircraft Carriers, the Hurricane also, on the CAM Ships, protecting our Atlantic Convoys, i am sure the WW2 convoys of Coastal Ships running the Channel and South Coast were gratful to see Spitfires attacking the Dorniers and Heinkles trying to sink them, They protected the MN, how can they not be valid,? the Spitfire did for us in the air what the Liberty Ship did at Sea, maybe i am biased, i like Spitfires.

[Tony Wilding]

Dont give up, your post was in reply to mine, nothing wrong with that, if i have offended anyone it was not intentional, you thought your post of interest, well to me it was, we must be a minority. best wishes, Tony W.