Richard Abbott 1912-1972, MN engineer

[Tom Wells]

Hello all, and I wonder if anyone can help with this.

I am trying to trace the career of an old family friend, Richard Abbott, born Durham 1912, who was an engineer in the Merchant Navy during and after WW2. I don't know much except that his ship was torpedoed in 1941, he was still at sea in the 1950s as Chief on a motor vessel, and he recalled being in Hong Kong and Singapore. It would be interesting to know about his ships and his service. This is to complete some biographical notes for the family.

From the National Archives, BT395 11/55 has a discharge number for a Richard Abbott, R194599, which could possibly be him. Where should I look next, and realistically can I get any further?

[Doc Vernon]

Hello Tom
I have looked at that Medal Card and i see for some reason it does not show a date!?
As your Man was Born in 1912 it is very possible that it is him, as the other names on that list with his, are all around about that era!

Abbott R.jpg

Registry of Shipping and Seamen: Database of World War II Medals issued to Merchant Seamen | The National Archives

You would have to go into it though and get his CRS10 which would Hold all his Service Records. This in turn would have all the info to confirm its him!

He may have CR10 and not a CRS10 ?? So a Search for the CRS10 first may be the best way to start!

All these records would of course carry a cost through the National Archives!

Any futher help please ask!
Cheers

The following Link should hold his CRS10 , you can request a Copy the initial search would cost 8GBP (non refundable) then when the find what you want, they will send a quote , you can accept or reject this!
Good Luck

Aadahl A N to Abbotts M F | The National Archives

[Tom Wells]

Hello Doc Vernon,

Thank you for your help, looks promising. I'm not familiar with CR10 and CRS10 - what are these? I will follow it up and see how it goes. It would be good to complete the story, as I know quite a lot about his early life, but as often happens he did not talk much about the war.

[Doc Vernon]

As said Tom the CRS10 is his full Service Record, which looks like they do hold at the National Archives!
Just when you apply make sure you only give his details and ask for that part of the Series, otherwise you will land up with the entire Folder of many Seaman on that File.
So give as much info as possible and include that Ref Number for his Medal File as well.
I at a guess would say it is most surely the person you want!

You will have to Join the National Archives first, but its Free.

Cheers

The CR10 now will not come into this ! So dont worry about it!

[Tom Wells]

Just to update this - I have now received the CRS10 and am still deciphering, it but I am sure I have the right man. Birthplace checks out, and he was born in 1911.

My understanding, based on a letter he wrote in the 1950s, is that his ship was torpedoed in 1941. From the CRS10, his first ship was the MV Ross, 161596, which he joined in June 1941 as second engineer. The Ross was indeed torpedoed, but not until October 1942. Quite possibly he got the date wrong some time after the event, but the CRS10 is difficult to follow here, see attachment.

On first reading, he left the Ross 18/3/42, joined the MNRP in 18/4/42, then joined the MV Hopecrest, 161581, 2/5/42, then left it 22/3/43. If so, he cannot have been on the Ross when it was torpedoed. The Hopecrest survived the war, so that was not the ship that was involved. Hmm...

Looking at it again, after joining MNRP in 18/4/42 - did he perhaps rejoin the Ross on 2/5/42, then discharged on 22/3/43 in Glasgow which would allow time for his repatriation after the sinking in October 42? That seems to make sense, but it shows how careful you have to be with this sort of research.

There is a good account of the sinking of the Ross at uboats.net, and the second engineer had the unenviable job of going below while the ship was sinking to stop the engines. He said very little about this event - I can remember him mentioning it, but maddeningly, no details.

Hope this may be of interest.

Tom

Attachment 36970

[DeepSea]

There is no attachment to view??

I have a copy of the original Survivors Report into the loss of this ship. To big to upload, but you can email me at billy1963@ntlworld.com

[Doc Vernon]

Ross (British Motor merchant) - Ships hit by German U-boats during WWII - uboat.net Just of interest, but you more than likely have this !
Cheers

Dont know if these Movements Cards will help at all ??
Cheers

Ross 1942.jpg

Ship Ross 1942 1.jpg

Not sure why your attachment wont Open ? Possibly too large ??

[Tom Wells]

Just a quick message. This is a new area of research for me and I am finding it most absorbing, so thank you all for your interest and help. Can't get my head around making the attachment visible but it was a section of the CRS 10, very difficult to decipher but as far as I can see it fits in with the movement cards kindly uploaded - at least they do not contradict it. Interestingly the next ship, Hopecrest, seems to have been on the Russian convoys, but nothing dramatic there apparently. I will get back to this when I have a bit more free time.

Tom