Protocol for Engraving Medals

[Paul C Stevens]

Hello, I have just joined this forum.
I am looking for some clarification on the war time status of my father who died in 1995. I have just received his Arctic Star after nearly 3 years waiting for the MCGA to validate it. Like most WWII campaign medals they come with a blank reverse. I would like to have this and his other medals engraved but I am not sure what to include. He was a Marconi Radio Officer. It has been suggested to me that a Radio Officer was not an Officer in terms of the Merchant Navy hierarchy. I was always under the impression that he was RNVR. Is that possible? His first voyage as a 3rd Radio Officer was at the beginning of 1940. His Arctic convoy voyage in 1943 was as 2nd Radio Officer on s/s British Governor after which he became Chief Radio Officer until his discharge from the Merchant Navy Reserve Pool in 1946. Is there a protocol for engraving medals?

[Doc Vernon]

Hello Paul
Thank you for the Question, and i am sure that Hugh when he reads this will come up with the correct reply.

Just sit back and wait a wee while
Cheers

[Hugh]

Hi Paul and welcome,
In the UK, campaign medals issued during World War Two were not issued named (engraved) although some commonwealth countries did issue them named. Some individuals did have them named privately.

So as you wish to engrave them privately you can really do what you want.

But if you wish to follow naming convention then prior to 2009, the format would be

military number, rank, initials, surname, regiment or unit.

Post 2009

rank, initials, surname, regiment or unit, military number. Those are military conventions but the MN would follow same.
You would substitute his Dis.A for military number. Rank could be Radio Officer or Chief Radio Officer. Substitute Merchant Navy for Regiment or unit.

I would not engrave with R.N.V.R unless you were sure he served and you would need to check records for that. It is possible that he served in the R.N.V.R but my gut feeling is probably not.
Any questions please feel free.
Regards
Hugh

[Ivan Cloherty]

The medals I received had my initials and surname already engraved on the selvedge (rim)

[j.sabourn]

I had mine done , being purely mercenary thought it might add value if could be traced later. JS
As one of them was presented by the Queen herself , I often wonder which holds the most value the medal or the warrant itself which is signed by the queen and at the time the Duke of Edinburgh. Contains 4 paragraphs Address by HM to the recipient in person.
Then whereas.....
Then we do........
Then Given........
Plus a summary.
Signed By the Sovereigns Command.
Maybe if took to that TV programme where they value old things, maybe Cappy could get his 3/9d back which he says is still owing.
JS
PS Forgot to say it is all scroll work on parchment . JS

[j.sabourn]

Ivan did you have a Merchant Navy Badge issued by the MOD with Veteran of HM Armed Forces stamped on ? This was also issued with a letter of Authenticity , nothing startling just who it was issued to. Could quite easily get lost. But plenty of room on back to print name and Dis. A. number. JS

Ditto the Australian Merchant Navy Service Crosses issued with certificates.
JS

[j.sabourn]

#1 Paul if its any consolation to you during the time of your fathers service , whether valid or not it was bandied around that the Radio Officer was the only valid officer on board the ship, the reason being he was usually the only one to be signed on as an officer. The master was master and the mates were mates and the engineers were engineers and evermore shall be so. Pride and time stand still for no man and today everyone likes to have the term officer attached to their title, your father was fully entitled to his service rank and signed on a British Merchant ship as such. I dont believe the RN took its radio officers from Marconi but then again I might be wrong but believe they trained their own . Ex naval personel will have better info. on this. Cheers JS

PS Do believe civilian radio officers took the Post Offices secrecy obligation to disclosure of private messages. Whereas Naval operators would more than likely come under the OSA. JS

[Ivan Cloherty]

Ivan did you have a Merchant Navy Badge issued by the MOD with Veteran of HM Armed Forces stamped on ? This was also issued with a letter of Authenticity , nothing startling just who it was issued to. Could quite easily get lost. But plenty of room on back to print name and Dis. A. number. JS

Ditto the Australian Merchant Navy Service Crosses issued with certificates.
JS

Yes John, mine was presented to me at the House of Commons by Gordon Brown, the then PM. I had my Dis A number engraved on the back and place of service Suez 1956, more for the grandkids than me, as you tend not to forget these occasions!

[Paul C Stevens]

Thank you Hugh for your very comprehensive reply. I had wondered whether his R number would substitute for a service number. The RNVR question is a difficult one. He always said he was RNVR and talked about being in the Wavy Navy but as you say it seems unlikely. Do you know how to go about checking?Could he have been on the reserve list but not called? His only previous military experience was in the Alleyns School OTC. Might that have any bearing? He was just leaving the school on the outbreak of the war.

[Paul C Stevens]

Thanks for this. He did also later take his Post Office examination and was issued with a Certificate of Proficiency in Radiotelegraphy in 1944. That included the declaration to preserve secrecy. That was when he became a 1st Radio officer so it might have been a pre-requisite. He completed 4 more voyages between then and his discharge in 1946, when he became a Post Office radio operator on Niton Radio RDF Station.